Allright then we wont register your prediction yet.
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*popcorn munching*
See, kiddies, atheotes and Kage are putting on a lovely play for us. Come watch!
I predict I'll die tonight by Vig
:(
I don't really get the impression that both atheotes and kage are mafia.
...but their "lovely" show is putting me at risk. My guess is Andres used random.org to decide between Beskar and myself.
@Kage: Can I bet that I won't be killed tonight? You all have me laid out for lynch bait, so I'm very safe from you. I also consider myself a possibility for being vigged, but I don't believe I'll be the one tonight. I'll place my vig bet on Split.
i dont think so. kage wanted beskar dead. so it is either because kage's vote was placed on beskar or because he decided beskar when andres asked him who of you 2 had to die. the question is ofcourse... what are you to him? quite conveniently you could have voted for him without risking his death, because you knew this would happen. and apparently, you have done this too.
What is Methos to Kage? An easier lynch than Beskar, maybe. He failed to place three votes. He knows what that gets people, by endgame. I'm sort of wandering back off of him as a suspect.
Yes. Since the Ancient Vampire can kill solo, we have no way of knowing when we've killed both henchmen and Kage becomes vulnerable. All we'll see is a string of one kill nights without being able to tell whether there is one henchman alive or none. We should be giving Kage the lynch every night and trying to put our top suspect into the #2 spot. It will be tricky to do this, but I don't see another way to get around the fact that we're going to have to keep testing Kage with lynches on a regular basis until the game is over.
For this reason, I agree that a top suspect should be vigged. The time has come.
well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.
because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.
i do agree that kage should be lynnched everyday from now on, untill we find a clue that he might not really be an ancient. though i think he is, since his reactions so far do not really deny it.
Vote: The Stranger
it is night... FOS at pever... for voting during nightphase without giving any reason.
This is possibly your scummiest post so far in the game. I don't think anyone believes Diana is mafia, so anyone she kills is like a second lynch for the town. If there are still 2 henchmen left alive, then it becomes even more important for us to dispose of them faster than we can with the lynch. 2 henchmen alive means 3 mafia votes every day, which will make it difficult to put a henchman iinto the #2 slot after Kage. So, vigging suspects is a good idea at this point.
LOL, you're not alone mate. I started to make a vote post, then checked the last write-up. Oops!
TinCow's idea to keep lynching Kagemusha under controlled circumstances is really intriguing, and I think I'm all for it, provided:
-- we all place normal votes for most of the day, switching to Kagemusha as necessary only in the last few hours, and
-- enough people commit to be around near day end to make the switch possible
-- we lynch (or vig) anyone who screws it up
I'm in for trying to work out some ground rules, anyone else?
I'd like some more explanations from you. Yesterday, you were gung-ho on vig kills:
You thought it was time to use vig kills and you weren't particularly concerned about killing off "genuine townies" in the process.
Yet, as soon as Kage is lynched, you suddenly go moderately anti-vig kill:
And several hours later you make a strong push to stop any vig kills:
The only thing that changed between your first post, pushing the vig kills, and your later posts discouraging vig kills, is Kage being found out as the godfather. If anything that should make people more inclined to use vig kills, not less. Your flipflip is not consistent with being a townie.
Also note that in the second post I quoted above, you say "we prolly got 2 mafia already" but then in the third post you try to argue that "the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills." You're adopting contradictory stances as it suits you and you're not basing your arguments on personally grounded beliefs. This is also not consistent with being a townie.
Finally, this bit is totally off:
You're saying that a situation with 3 mafioso and 10 townies alive would be "tricky to pull off a victory" but a situation with 3 mafioso and 11 townies alive would be a "comfortable position"? That doesn't make any sense at all.
well... like i said, i hadnt considered the votes, only the kills. so you were right.
and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.
while earlier i thought the vigkill as a bonus, an extra shot to get a mafioso, not our only means.
I don't follow the reasoning here. Why would the vigs be our only way to get the last mafioso? How many do you think are left, anyway?Quote:
and why i urged caution with the vigkills is because, they will be our only way getting the last mafioso, since we will be lynching kage from now on every day.
It's basic backpedalling.
You didn't answer the main question: what happened to make you change your mind from thinking vig kills were good to vig kills were bad? You pushed for vig kills in this post, and you urged no vig kills in this post.
During that time, here is a complete list of all the posts which discuss vig kills during the time between your posts:
Diamondeye - Somewhat neutral, edging on discouraging vig kills
Renata - pushing vig kills
Renata - urges a vig kill again
Sasaki - urges vig kill
ATPG - strongly urges vig kill, but wants to save 1 for later
ATPG - wants to save 1 vig kill for later
Diana - asks for opinions on whether to use vig kills
ATPG - favors vig kill
Sasaki - wants to save 1 for later
Scienter - Vig should not be used on Kage, no comment on using it on others
As you can see, there is a grand total of 1 post which discourages the use of vig kills, Diamondeye's. Even that post isn't very strong and it's early on; you made several posts after that point and didn't show any flip on vig kills, so clearly DE didn't convince you. All of the other posts are pro-vig kill or neutral on it. So, there's nothing in the thread to convince you to flip from pro-vig to anti-vig. Thus, the only thing that changed to impact your opinion was Kage being revealed as scum.
Why did Kage being revealed make you go anti-vig kill?
well... if we would do what tincow proposes, and that is to lynch kage every night from here on... that we can only get his henchmen by vigkilling. in that case it is not smart to throw them away. that is all i was trying to say.
i think there are 2 left, atleast i hope so.
@ TinCow: That first post of mine actually said I thought it was too early for vig kills; and the second was a hypothetical on how split should preferably die, not an advocate for anyone to die by vig tonight, either. I think your argument about Stranger is probably valid despite that, but please don't mischaracterize me just to get your point across.
Sorry, I stand corrected. I think I read the first bit as pro-vig and then my eyes glazed over when reading the final line.
My post? Please show where I made a post saying that vigging was a bad idea.
Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:
Why are you lying?
This is beautiful play, TinCow. Sincere appreciation.
are you intentionally misreading my posts? the post you posted before my post, which is the reason you accuse me now, is the reason why i changed my mind. you said we are going to lynch kage everyday, so i said, well than its not smart to blindly use vigkills. that is all there is to it.
i really think you are mafia, but any attempt to get you lynched will be ignored, as it has been ignored since the start of the game. since whatever i say will be ignored unless by mafia trying to change me into their advantage. like kage did by trying to get me lynched. and as you do now.
why are you lying? i never said that, so dont put words in my mouth. it was you who said that not me. dont try to frame me with lies, be honest.Quote:
Nice of you to walk right into that one, though, since you specifically said it was Kage being revealed that made you shift your vote:
you can keep pressuring me all you want, days months years :P
but plz answer this question, who, oh who, would chose me as their mafia sidekick?
consider these two cases
i am mafia, but not the ancient one, since i wasnt really a target for a vigkill, i would let you waste it, instead of arguing for it to be saved.
i am mafia, i am the ancient one, and i saved kage from death (this is hypotethical and what i say now i got from sasakis post a few pages back), by using one of my special powers, why would i, again, wouldnt i let you waste your vigkill?
there is no advantage at all for mafia to argue for the town saving its vigkill, for the reason that they are highly unlikely to succeed in taking out a mafia.
Odd, since I made that post about 12 hours after you changed your mind. I must be better at arguing than I thought if I'm able to convince people with my words half a day before I even speak them.
Me lying? I quoted directly from your post, in which you said "i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill." I realize your sentence structure isn't perfect there, but it seems pretty clear to me. It was your opinion that "since" we had identified the Ancient One, vig killing was not a good idea. Please explain how I am misreading that.
Apparently Kagemusha.
i dont know if you are blind, but my post is behind yours, i posted my post 1.5 hours later than yours.
Protip: that blue text that makes your cursor change to a hand icon when you mouse over it is a link. I put them in my posts as citations to evidence. They are there for your convenience so that you can properly understand the basis for my statements.
For the record, I have quoted the post I am referring to in its entirety once, then linked to it once, followed by another partial quote with embedded link, then provided another link to it with my own manual quote. Since that apparently isn't enough to make you understand which post I'm talking about, I will post it again in full.
I have conveniently highlighted for you the sentence to which I am referring. :bow:
well... maybe you dont understand what i am writing, but... i havent changed my mind in that post. i was still considering both options.
it wasnt until this post
Quote:
well... since there isnt really a consensus on who is the top suspect and there are still alot of people playing, it might not be so smart to vigkill straight away. lets wait one night and see what the mafia does.
because consider this case, the mafia framed atheothes, and they still have 2 kills, which they will use this night. we will also use our vigikill, but fail to kill a mafia. then suddenly our numbers are decreased by 3, to 10. that way it will still be tricky to pull of a victory. lets maintain our comfortable position.
that i changed my mind. and that post was behind your post, and i wrote because i read your post.
is clearly, intented to show, that i am considering 2 options...Quote:
i think, since now we prolly have the ancient one... it is too soon to vigkill. if we can narrow down the scope of targets, the vigkill will be more effective. on the other hand, a lucky shot might really turn this game into the towns favor for definite terms.
you take only one part of my post, you are like those reporters who cut and paste everything to make it look like something they want it to look like. now the question is why do you want me to look like mafia so badly?
No, it's clearly intended to hedge your bets, which is also a mafia tell.
Very sorry, the entire post must indeed be considered. Taking sections out of context is bad.
Oh, look at that. After you hedged your bets 'in favor' of vig killing, you once again expressed a preference for lynching instead of vig killing.
... now you are getting to farfetched. i do notice a typo, because i say in that post that i think split is good for lynch, i meant that he was good for vigikill.
anyhow, i am done with this, since i you really want to paint me mafia, and in order to do so, you will use guerilla media tactics such as taking posts out of context, such as mine and renatas post.
i cannot properly defend myself against that, and since i have no need to do so, i wont.
The prosecution rests.
A very clever, ballsy player would definitely pick you as their underling; the very fact that you're still alive, despite your inane behaviour and a fair few bandwagons against you, is testament to that fact.
I don't actually have an entirely negative opinion of you, I think that there's a good player somewhere underneath all the trash... so you'd be just as much of an asset to the mafia as a hinderance, which is something that a ballsy player might enjoy, liven the game up a little.
Oh, TinCow... never before have I read one of your posts and utterly fell in love with it. :laugh4:
I love you, TinCow. That was a curb-stomp-debate if I ever saw one (and I, like Secura, fell in love with the protip-part). I think it makes sense to suspect The Stranger... But unlike pever I'll hold my vote until day comes :bow:
I am convinced that The Stranger needs to die before the game is concluded. I say we lynch him today.
@ The Stranger- dang, man... you know where my blind spot is. Worst play ever turns into the best play against me, because then I decide you're innocent.
ok, my last words.
TC is mafia, and he has really got you good here if you lynch me. it is a wasted vote and i hope it wont cost the town the game.
and ATPG, really... you amongst other people search for clues where there are none, you take the game too seriously.
The moon was shining over the Alhambra, but TinCow didn't pay too much attention to it.
After his computer went down, he could no longer play Civ IV. He only had two books with him, and "DIY - Putting on paint clothes for dummies" was pretty boring.
So, there he was, enjoying a bottle of Spanish wine while reading "Famous Dagger Lawsuits". He particularly liked the episode about the brilliant interpretation of article 54 ยง3 of the Vampire hunting Code juncto article 23 of the Dagger Act in the famous Van Helsing vs. The Stranger case from 2000. Surely, this was something he could use tomorrow!
"This, this and this will certainly convince them!" he said, still amazed by the cunningness of the outstanding brilliant lawyer Andres Something mentioned in the book.
Yes, he would be well prepared now. A good thing that his computer broke down, so that he could finally pay some attention to this vampire hunting stuff. He'd probably save the brotherhood just in time.
He smiled confidently and opened another bottle of rosado. This country was great and, much to his surprise, they had some excellent wine. He shouldn't forget to buy a few bottles before leaving this place. There's always room for excellent stuff in his wine collection. Some of the bottles he planned to buy were pretty expensive, but surely his better half would understand. And if not, he'd just use the ultimate defence: "But it was on sale!" That'll teach her!
As he was thinking these fine thoughts, he didn't notice the dark figure sneaking up on him. Just when the killer was ready to hit TinCow on the head with a wooden club, his target suddenly exclaimed:
"Go ahead! Make my day!"
TinCow quickly jumped up and pointed his Magnum .44, loaded with silver bullets, at his attacker.
The attacker stayed ice cold and said to his victim: "You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?”
TinCow trembled.
His attacker slowly moved forward and nodded in approval: "A good man always knows his limitations.”
TinCow regained control over himself and he pulled the trigger. The gun made a soft clicking sound, but nothing else.
TinCow started to yell at the gun. "This stuff has cost me 8.000 €. It's designed especially for me! With that kind of money, I could have paid someone to renovate my house instead of buying that stupid DIY book! This is outrageous! A scandal! I will sue the idiot who sold me this rubbish gun! I... I... " TinCow was all red. Rage had taken over.
The attacker simply shrugged. "If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster.”
TinCow looked up. "Are you still there?"
The attacker didn't answer, but simply jumped forward, swinging his club at TinCows' head. Before the brilliant man of the law hit the floor, his head was already seperated from his body.
The killer shrugged and left the scene.
"Wake up!"
He opened his eyes. He couldn't feel anything.
"Wake up!"
He tried to scream, but there was no sound. He tried to move his arms, but he couldn't.
"Wake up!"
Suddenly, he floated through the air. He saw a headless body. He looked down and to his aggony, he noticed that he didn't have a body. A flash and his head was being attached to his body again.
He remembered vaguely. "I'm atheothes. I'm dead."
The powerful creature standing in front of him nodded. "Indeed, and that's all you need to know about your past. Now go my child. Go."
Kukrikhan was in a hurry. He needed to go back to his hotelroom. He looked around and felt very hungry. Shaking his head, he ignored the hunger and continued to walk further.
Suddenly, he felt like someone was following him.
Kukrikhan stayed calm and walked forward; suddenly, he took a small, dark alley and turned around. Fast as lightning, he punched in the direction of his follower, but there was nobody there.
"No human being can be this fast."
"Much has changed since you last encountered us."
Kukrikhan looked at his attacker, who was sitting on a nearby rooftop.
"You won't kill me, my child."
Suddenly, Kukrikhan disappeared.
The dagger jumped down from the rooftop, turned to his left and threw his silver dagger.
The scream of a beast broke the silence, a raw sound of anger and frustration. Allthough the drugs had him in their grasp, the dagger lost his selfcontrol for a brief moment. Kukrikhan tried to take advantage of this by clawing at his attacker. But the dagger was fast, too fast, for the wounded Kukrikhan.
He decided that he would flee. But before he could start to run, the dagger grabbed him. Kukrikhan managed to throw his attacker off him and drew his blade. The dagger did the same and a fierce duel began in the streets of Granada. Attack, block, riposte, block, attack. The duel continued and both men were equally matched.
The dagger forced his opponent to the edge of a nearby ravine. Hardly noticing his bad position, Kukri kept fighting. Suddenly, he lost his balance.
The dagger swung his blade at Kukrikhan for a devastating blow, but Kurki's body was already falling down.
The dagger looked down. Nobody would survive this. He had done his job and would now return to his Naib.
Renata was fanatically reading an article about an ancient civilisation, when somebody knocked on the door of her hotel room.
Without thinking, she stood up and opened the door.
"You?"
The man standing in front of her didn't say a word.
"You!" she exclaimed. "This cannot be! You were dead! Decapacitated! This is not possible."
The abomination standing in front of her didn't answer, but stepped forward and grabbed Renata by her throat.
The former Naib was surprised by this attack, but her reaction was fast. She drew her silver dagger and stabbed her attacker.
atheotes simply kept strangling Renata with his bare hands. Renata kept stabbing her attacker, but he didn't bleed. He didn't make a sound. It was as if the knive couldn't hurt him.
This continued for more than a minute and Renata slowly lost her strength.
atheotes strenghtened his grip and was rewarded with a sickening cracking sound.
He opened his hands and the dead Naib fell on the floor, her neck broken. Immediately, atheotes' body dissolved and ashes and dust were carried away with a cold breeze...
Lightning and rolling thunder. Heavy rain was falling down.
Somebody could be heard screaming. A scream of joy.
"Finally! Finally! Power will be mine! I will rule! Ruuuule!
Then the lightning storm stopped as suddenly as it had started...
***
Day 10
Diana Abnoba was calm. The sight of the small group saddened her. Not too long ago, their numbers were much larger. It would take several generations to get back to their full strength.
"Three of us died last night," she said. "I ordered the death of one of them and we have reasons to believe that he was not human."
The Naib paused and continued: "TinCow got killed in the same way as many others. The death of Renata was..."
The Naib shrugged. "I have no explanation for it. It has never been seen before in our history."
Diana shrugged again. "But let us get down to business, shall we. We need to vote and we also need to elect a Naib today."
***
Alive (13)
1. TheFlax
2. Diana Abnoba
3. Double A
4. The Stranger
5. Methos
6. spL1tp3r50naL1ty
7. Jolt
8. Choxorn
9. Beefy187
10. Kagemusha
11. pevergreen
12. DiamondEye
13. Scienter
Killed (18)
autolycus
Yaropolk
Chaotix
Centurion1
Ibn-Khaldun
Psychonaut
Sasaki Kojiro
Yaseikhaan
Peasant Phill
Death is yonder
YLC
Secura
Captain Blackadder
GreyBlades
Niklas
TinCow
Kukrikhan
Renata
Lynched (8)
Csargo
Askthepizzaguy
Seon
GeneralHankerchief
White_Eyes:D
Romanic
atheotes
Beskar
WoG (1)
AVSM
***
It's now day. You can start voting. You'll also have to elect a new Naib. Day will last for +/- 24 hours.
:bow:
I suppose being (probably) killed by a third party is better than being killed by the mafia?
Something tells me Khan isn't really gone, either.
Kukri was the vig target? Meh...
Meh?
Does the fact that he didn't seem to be human, as confirmed by the game host, reverse your opinion of "Meh"?
wow, i hadnt expected this...
anyhow. seems like tc is actually innocent. i take back what i said.
can diana confirm who she has vigged, if she has vigged at all.
i suppose it was kukri.
Hmmm... nm. On re-read, I agree it looks like Kukri might have been mafia. I recommend that Kage be the #1 lynch again today, with TS in the #2 spot.
Confusing.
-edit-
ALMOST LIKE THE MAFIA HAD INSIDE KNOWLEDGEQuote:
Your death scene was funny, surprisingly on target, too. ;)
Argh, I'm not sure. That whole section was ambivalent, though Diana does say at the end that Kukri might not have been human. But there's something weird about the one chosen to perform the kill, also.
Nice hit.
Vote: Splitpersonality
Split hasn't explained the fact that he brandished a neat program to track votes/posts? and yet remained silent most of the game.
The way I read it, the Dagger attacking KukriKhan is on drugs that make him faster. Its mentioned that KukriKhan is "Fast as lightning" and when he is hurt "The scream of a beast broke the silence"
Though, I'm not actually sure we can take this as the fact he was one of the henchmen.
atheotes rising from the dead and killing Renata (that's how I read it) is rather disturbing.
EDIT: it seems I was massively too slow...
Again it's ambivalent, the dagger is also described as breaking free from the drugs for a moment around that time. Heck maybe Diana used Kage as the attacker and that explains that part; we'll have to wait for her.
vote: Methos
Elect: TheFlax
While there is a rather large amount of personally specific information in that kill write-up, pretty much everything described was known to Andres and I don't have difficulty believing it was his work. If Scienter was mafia in this game, it's her first experience as a mafioso. I doubt Scienter would so blatantly ID herself as my killer in that manner; she strikes me more as a lurker mafioso than an intentional WIFOM mafioso.
[edit]What was the reasoning that resulted in Kukri being the vig target, btw? I didn't expect him to be picked at all, would be nice to know how he was chosen.
@Tincow- A lot of people had him down as a suspect. This vig kill was very democratic.
The reasoning behind him was a combination of the fact that he wasn't discussing much, was very low key, not controversial, and he was pretending not to know the rules of the game. He's more competent than that.
Hmm... the more I read Kukri's death, the more it reads like both people were a bit non-human. If Kage was the person chosen as the killer, that would make sense for one of them. We couldn't possibly have gotten so lucky as to have had the mafioso kill off the special role, could we?
that was an interesting write up to say the least...
the vig kill was probably decided based on the PMs sent to Diana...i know at least one person who though Kukri was guilty :yes:
the Renata kill could have been done by Nikaloas (secret role) because he suspected Renata to be one the grunts.
I don't think kukri was mafia. Weird way of doing things.
I'm thinking he might have been the special role, which is probably the guy who made atheotes kill Renata.
[edit] Notice that the thing that resurrected atheotes called him "my child" which is the same thing Kukri calls the dagger that killed him. Andres also tends to do his write-ups in chronological order of events, so the resurrection prior to Kukri's death fits.
See?
Atheotes is always the mafia.
Maybe atheotes IS the special role.
Anyway, Vote: The Stranger.
I'll vote later. Not sure who to vote for just yet.