POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

A permanent Navy is embedded in the Constitution, not Army or Airforce. The individual State's National Guard is probably OK.

Interesting that the bits that they directly benefit from are just part of the job and so are ok whereas the same for others is clearly going OTT.

VA healthcare is probably not first rate. But given how the average American would be financially crippled for pretty much any hospital care they are in this regard fortunate.

~:smoking:

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It has to do with it being "earned" or not. To them, if you serve in the military then you deserve to get the free healthcare and college after you complete service. Which is partly why I think a national civil service program (like a new Civilian Conservation Corps or a larger AmeriCorps program) might be a good segue to make the idea of universal healthcare or free college more palatable to parts of the population that previously arent so into the idea. You shouldn't have to risk your life to afford college and get healthcare. But I think it could be a great idea, especially with an infrastructure program to go along with it. Like a program where 18 year olds spend a year after graduating college to help rebuild crumbling roads and bridges or clear underbrush from forests to reduce forest fire intensity. And then after their year of service they get free state college tuition. Something like that.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

It has to do with it being "earned" or not. To them, if you serve in the military then you deserve to get the free healthcare and college after you complete service. Which is partly why I think a national civil service program (like a new Civilian Conservation Corps or a larger AmeriCorps program) might be a good segue to make the idea of universal healthcare or free college more palatable to parts of the population that previously arent so into the idea. You shouldn't have to risk your life to afford college and get healthcare. But I think it could be a great idea, especially with an infrastructure program to go along with it. Like a program where 18 year olds spend a year after graduating college to help rebuild crumbling roads and bridges or clear underbrush from forests to reduce forest fire intensity. And then after their year of service they get free state college tuition. Something like that.

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Very interesting. If they were in the IDF I would have some acceptance for that point of view, but given that the USA hasn't been at risk of invasion in oh, 200 years (the War of 1812 when the USA attacked Canada) as I don't really think killing Indians was so much defence as genocide, serving in the military entitles people to a lot of state handouts. The speed with people with entitlements feel that they are all deserved is amazing.

Whereas being a nurse / healthcare assistant - yes indeed, construction workers - and a massive number of other less prestigious jobs which are also generally more poorly paid aren't. All they do is make the country better for Americans. Perhaps these people deserve support.

Perhaps, given the USA's fetishism with the armed forces, the easiest way would be to use the Army Corps of Engineers to do the construction - by hiring the workers and the Army Medical Corps can hire poorly paid healthcare workers and so on and so forth. So the "eeeeevil" perils of Socialism can only go to those who deserve it - those that kill foreigners for business interests and those who help Americans.

~:smoking:

As I figured, more establishment Republicans are beginning to gesture at coming out of the cold with respect to Biden's legitimate status.

Don't believe them of course, they're domestic enemies of the Republic and the Constitution.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

It has to do with it being "earned" or not. To them, if you serve in the military then you deserve to get the free healthcare and college after you complete service. Which is partly why I think a national civil service program (like a new Civilian Conservation Corps or a larger AmeriCorps program) might be a good segue to make the idea of universal healthcare or free college more palatable to parts of the population that previously arent so into the idea. You shouldn't have to risk your life to afford college and get healthcare. But I think it could be a great idea, especially with an infrastructure program to go along with it. Like a program where 18 year olds spend a year after graduating college to help rebuild crumbling roads and bridges or clear underbrush from forests to reduce forest fire intensity. And then after their year of service they get free state college tuition. Something like that.

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You're actually more conservative than Biden here.

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Make public colleges and universities tuition-free for all families with incomes below $125,000. Biden has long said that when it comes to public education in America, we’re starting too late and ending too soon — and that if we were building the public education system in America today it would extend from pre-k, starting with 3 and 4 year olds through ensuring 16 years of education is affordable. Biden has added to his education beyond high school agenda by adopting Senator Sanders’ proposal to make public colleges and universities tuition-free for all students whose family incomes are below $125,000. This proposal, part of Senator Sanders and Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal’s College for All Act of 2017, will help roughly 8 out of every 10 families.

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If there is to be a national service program let's have it such as will directly meet some need.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Perhaps, given the USA's fetishism with the armed forces, the easiest way would be to use the Army Corps of Engineers to do the construction - by hiring the workers and the Army Medical Corps can hire poorly paid healthcare workers and so on and so forth. So the "eeeeevil" perils of Socialism can only go to those who deserve it - those that kill foreigners for business interests and those who help Americans.

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This has long been known as "military Keynesianism."

Army's in the Constitution though, right before the the navy.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

You're actually more conservative than Biden here.

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I do agree with his plan, I was just thinking of a way to perhaps make the concept more palatable to the anti-free college crowd. Regardless, I do think that a national civil service program is an excellent idea, and has usually found bipartisan support as well. God knows we need the help to rebuild the country. As I recall the American Society of Civil Engineers gave America's infrastructure a D+ rating back in 2017 and I doubt its improved since then.

Why do Americans begrudge others from having basic benefits of modern life? It's so weird. I mean, we have a strong strand of it here too - and I don't understand that either. That people should have a certain amount of misery in their lives - unless they are rich, in which case they are sacred magic people and deserve all the benefits the earth can provide. It's like the dark reflection of the politics of envy.

I honestly can't understand why someone would want someone else to either have no healthcare, or be made destitute for it - as a desirable moral outcome. It's f#(k3d up.

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I honestly can't understand why someone would want someone else to either have no healthcare, or be made destitute for it - as a desirable moral outcome. It's f#(k3d up.

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That "someone else" can often be identified as black people. Take Jared Kushner's comments earlier this fall about the Trump Administration's policies aimed at blacks: "But he can't want them to be successful more than they want to be successful." Straight out of the "welfare queen" rhetoric of the 70's and 80's. White supremacy anxiety.

This is a very interesting, albeit dismaying, article that is definitely worth a read:

How 2020 Killed Off Democrats’ Demographic Hopes

Long-awaited, now finalized at 306-232: A mirror universe version of the 2016 election

My home state going blue is something I never thought would happen for another generation at least. :book2:

This lieutenant governor is in his 50s yet he tweets with the panache of a Millenial.
https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/st...52291182419969


Hmmm

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Why would candidates for Florida Senate seats do no campaigning, no fundraising, have no issue platforms, nor make any effort to get votes?

Local 10 News has found evidence to suggest three such candidates in three Florida Senate district races, two of them in Miami Dade County, were shill candidates whose presence in the races were meant to syphon votes from Democratic candidates.

Comparisons of the no-party candidates' public campaign records show similarities and connections that suggest they are all linked by funding from the same dark money donors, and part of an elaborate scheme to upset voting patterns.

In one of those races, District 37, a recount is underway because the spread between the Democratic and Republican candidates is only 31 votes. The third party candidate received more than 6300 votes.

That third party candidate is Alexis Rodriguez, who has the same last name as the Democratic incumbent senator Jose Javier Rodriguez. The Republican challenger is Ileana Garcia.

Alexis Rodriguez falsified his address on his campaign filing form last June. The couple who now live at the Palmetto Bay address say they have been repeatedly harassed since then by people looking for Rodriguez, who hadn’t lived there in five years.

Local 10 visited Rodriguez’s place of business Tuesday, where Rodriguez lied about his identity. Pretending to be a business partner, Rodriguez shed little light on his sudden candidacy in the District 37 race and lack of fundraising or campaigning.

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What was the term for this?

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What was the term for this?

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:shrug:

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Alex Rodriguez received 3% of the D37 vote, more than 6300 votes. The race, currently in recount, has a margin of .02 between the Democrat incumbent and Republican challenger.
The race for D39 was decided by 12.3 percent, a large enough margin to make Celso Alfonso’s 1.5 percent of the vote moot.

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What I want to know is: a) is A. Rodriguez an invalid candidate, requiring a run-off between Garcia and J.J. Rodriguez? and b) how the eff can somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 people vote for candidates they've never seen or heard speak?

Foreign interference, or GOP scam?

All is not necessarily well in MAGA World:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...or-maga-436502

While MAGA World will certainly carry on without it's "Golden Goose", the infighting will be interesting to watch as contenders for the "Throne" start lining up....:shrug:

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

b) how the eff can somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 people vote for candidates they've never seen or heard speak?

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Because people are stupid and some want to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

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Foreign interference, or GOP scam?

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I wager the latter. Its well known that the GOP donates to third parties (such as the Greens and Kanye this year) in an effort to siphon off potential Dem voters.

I wonder at the naivete of Americans (both here and those I see in TV footages) who calculate votes in states, number of electoral colleges' members, mock Trump calling him Covidon and generally rejoice in his discomfiture.

All of you fail to realize (or choose to disregard) the fact that Trump isn't the core of your troubles. Half of your nation are covidons who want to see him in the White House again. Trump just impersonates the trend. He will eventually step down, but millions of covidons will not, and they will continue living next door to you or across the street. This is what you should be more concerned about.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I wonder at the naivete of Americans (both here and those I see in TV footages) who calculate votes in states, number of electoral colleges' members, mock Trump calling him Covidon and generally rejoice in his discomfiture.

All of you fail to realize (or choose to disregard) the fact that Trump isn't the core of your troubles. Half of your nation are covidons who want to see him in the White House again. Trump just impersonates the trend. He will eventually step down, but millions of covidons will not, and they will continue living next door to you or across the street. This is what you should be more concerned about.

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Yeah I dont think anyone here believes that just getting rid of Trump is the solution to the core issue.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sen-elect...225708676.html
Evaporating commies on Normandy aside, there is one branch of government, the executive and the Senate. I mean there are two branches of government, the executive, the Senate and the House. Scrap it, there are three, the executive, the Senate, the House and... Yeah that must be it, just like that Jean-Paul Sartre said.

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All of you fail to realize (or choose to disregard) the fact that Trump isn't the core of your troubles. Half of your nation are covidons who want to see him in the White House again. Trump just impersonates the trend. He will eventually step down, but millions of covidons will not, and they will continue living next door to you or across the street. This is what you should be more concerned about.

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I don't think that anyone with a brain thinks that firing CoviDon is the end of trouble here. That nearly 73 million voted for him sez it all on that account. However, if he hadn't been fired now, another four years of his chaotic leadership would've seen America slip further and further into an authoritarian state. The real work begins now.

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Yeah that must be it, just like that Jean-Paul Sartre said.

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What'd you expect from Tuberville? He's been a football coach all of his life. Understanding anything more than the three phases of football (offense, defense, special teams) is probably a bit too much to expect. Don't be too surprised if he doesn't start describing legislation in terms of football plays, like a weak-side jet sweep.....:stupido:

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I wonder at the naivete of Americans (both here and those I see in TV footages) who calculate votes in states, number of electoral colleges' members, mock Trump calling him Covidon and generally rejoice in his discomfiture.

All of you fail to realize (or choose to disregard) the fact that Trump isn't the core of your troubles. Half of your nation are covidons who want to see him in the White House again. Trump just impersonates the trend. He will eventually step down, but millions of covidons will not, and they will continue living next door to you or across the street. This is what you should be more concerned about.

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Bet you feel pretty silly once you realize that just this question has been plastered all about the thread already since before the election.

It's good that you're interested though, the Republican degeneration is the inescapable tragedy of American life (among others) in the 21st century.

This transition is petulance at its worst.

There is, I strongly suspect, NOBODY in the administration that believes the Biden win in the election will now be overturned. Trump keeps playing to his coterie of ignorant supporters and the racists they cohere with and the only loser is ALL of us.

Constitutionally, he can string this out until Congress meets in January to open and accept the vote of the Electoral College. Thus preventing a smooth transition and guaranteeing screw ups above and beyond the Washington DC norm.

Petulant and classless.

All it would take is quiet statement allowing the transition office to function as designed.

What an asshat.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

This transition is petulance at its worst.

There is, I strongly suspect, NOBODY in the administration that believes the Biden win in the election will now be overturned. Trump keeps playing to his coterie of ignorant supporters and the racists they cohere with and the only loser is ALL of us.

Constitutionally, he can string this out until Congress meets in January to open and accept the vote of the Electoral College. Thus preventing a smooth transition and guaranteeing screw ups above and beyond the Washington DC norm.

Petulant and classless.

All it would take is quiet statement allowing the transition office to function as designed.

What an asshat.

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What do you think will happen with the Republican-dominated institutions from now? A couple of the supposedly conservative supreme judges have reportedly backed the legitimacy of the election result. Is this because it's an easy thing to say with little further consequence? Or will sections of the Republican-friendly institutions distance themselves from the Trumpian hardcore?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

What do you think will happen with the Republican-dominated institutions from now? A couple of the supposedly conservative supreme judges have reportedly backed the legitimacy of the election result. Is this because it's an easy thing to say with little further consequence? Or will sections of the Republican-friendly institutions distance themselves from the Trumpian hardcore?

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Why would they?

kek

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Today in horrible but unsurprising quotes: in Obama's memoir, he recalls he and Biden trying to explain the policy merits of a bill to Mitch McConnell, who responds "You must be under the mistaken impression that I care”

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

This transition is petulance at its worst.

There is, I strongly suspect, NOBODY in the administration that believes the Biden win in the election will now be overturned. Trump keeps playing to his coterie of ignorant supporters and the racists they cohere with and the only loser is ALL of us.

Constitutionally, he can string this out until Congress meets in January to open and accept the vote of the Electoral College. Thus preventing a smooth transition and guaranteeing screw ups above and beyond the Washington DC norm.

Petulant and classless.

All it would take is quiet statement allowing the transition office to function as designed.

What an asshat.

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What an asshat indeed, although would anyone really expect him to act differently after a lifetime of well, being an asshat?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Bet you feel pretty silly once you realize that just this question has been plastered all about the thread already since before the election.

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No I don't. Even if such issue came to the focus of attention, you still continue to count votes and guess who will take what position after Trump. But it doesn't really matter. The division within the nation won't disappear whoever steps in.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

No I don't. Even if such issue came to the focus of attention, you still continue to count votes and guess who will take what position after Trump. But it doesn't really matter. The division within the nation won't disappear whoever steps in.

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Not only are the bolded statements not in opposition, one would naturally seem to heighten the importance of the other. Or are you saying we should lie down and bare our throats?

I feel a bit embarrassed. My whole life I have always been frustrated at how easy a divided Congress can halt any action and now that I am looking at yet another 2 years of no Federal action whatsoever, I realized I don't even know how Congress operates.
So I bought a book about Congressional Procedure, stuff hooahguy probably already knows but reading it I am at a loss at how ignorant I have been.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Not only are the bolded statements not in opposition, one would naturally seem to heighten the importance of the other. Or are you saying we should lie down and bare our throats?

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Are you saying that your opponents are predators ready to rend to pieces? That's what division within the society makes people say. It seems that you are ready to do the same to them. Biden's victory won't mend anything. You are in for years of Two Americas.

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Biden's victory won't mend anything. You are in for years of Two Americas.

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This comment shows that you know little about America. We have already been "Two Americas" for years. It's been decades of white anxiety keeping people of color suppressed as much as possible. The divide between the wealthy and the poor has been getting wider for many years. The political divide between Republicans and Democrats has gotten more radical and confrontational for the last 20 years.

America's problems won't be solved during the course of one presidential term. That will likely not happen during the course of the next four or five presidential terms, if it happens at all. While you are entitled to your opinion, I would appreciate that if you are going to bloviate about the state of affairs here in the States, you at least educate yourself about what is actually going on here.

If the man can correct the utter chaos and madness that's characterized America's pandemic response, and get our economy headed in the direction of a recovery, that alone would be a huge success. Whether he can get some of the other things on his agenda accomplished, isn't entirely within his control. Biden is no Golden Child that's going to instantly heal the very sick patient that is America, but to condemn the man before he's had a chance to do anything...well, keep that BS to yourself until you actually have something to comment on.

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Originally Posted by Donald Trump

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
1h
He won because the Election was Rigged. NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a Radical Left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn’t even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more!

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Does this count as conceding the election? Do the constitutional mechanisms have the go ahead to move?

Also, for your amusement.

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

This comment shows that you know little about America. We have already been "Two Americas" for years. It's been decades of white anxiety keeping people of color suppressed as much as possible. The divide between the wealthy and the poor has been getting wider for many years. The political divide between Republicans and Democrats has gotten more radical and confrontational for the last 20 years.

America's problems won't be solved during the course of one presidential term. That will likely not happen during the course of the next four or five presidential terms, if it happens at all. While you are entitled to your opinion, I would appreciate that if you are going to bloviate about the state of affairs here in the States, you at least educate yourself about what is actually going on here.

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You may not believe, but I'm somewhat aware of the divides you speak about. But in the last four years all of them deepened. And mending them isn't Biden's responsibility, but the one of all Americans.

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

If the man can correct the utter chaos and madness that's characterized America's pandemic response, and get our economy headed in the direction of a recovery, that alone would be a huge success. Whether he can get some of the other things on his agenda accomplished, isn't entirely within his control. Biden is no Golden Child that's going to instantly heal the very sick patient that is America, but to condemn the man before he's had a chance to do anything...well, keep that BS to yourself until you actually have something to comment on.

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First of all, it is always a privilege to communicate to a polite person.

Second of all, I would like you to cite my post where I condemn Biden. I think that in the situation that you have he is the least evil (for Ukraine especially). So I advise you to read carefully what I write and keep YOUR BS to yourself until you do have something to bitch about.

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I'm somewhat aware of the divides you speak about. But in the last four years all of them deepened. And mending them isn't Biden's responsibility, but the one of all Americans.

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Somewhat being the key word....in the last four years places the deepening burden on the jack-wagon that just got fired....the office of the presidency does matter...and it goes without saying that the ultimate responsibility lies with the American people themselves.

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First of all, it is always a privilege to communicate to a polite person.

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Our discourses have never been polite....

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Biden's victory won't mend anything.

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That's declaring a fail before the man has had a chance to do anything. You have absolutely no idea what he's going be able to do, and stating that "Biden's victory won't mend anything" is BS 'fail' rhetoric which I will call out every time.