Sorceror 17er Game Thread

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

wow, a non-peepeepoopoo spoiler i regretted clicking

well done katze

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credit goes to artsy of mafia universe i could never write anything so brilliant

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Originally Posted by ladd

katze,

i have played exactly 1 game with newcomb (tho I have read a bunch), idr have experience with them

i just think they are genuinely trying to solve the game

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ladd,

fair enough

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

@Cape90 if you could expand on why winston is your next biggest w read after csargo that would be appreciated

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You are reading the same Winston as I am right?

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Originally Posted by ladd

can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and why

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You.

Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.

Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.

Monstr for the weak approach and being there in a meh capacity. Also the post about trying more as wolf pings badly on my "But if I was wolf I would" ping. (Yes, I do that as town. Shut up.)

Katze because I can't live with someone better than me at lyrical genius around.

I want to prelude that these reads are subject to change with revision and half of them are jokes.

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

You.

Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.

Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.

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i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU

but thanks anyway

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Originally Posted by ladd

how much of the thread had you read when you made this post?

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i'd skimmed over the parts up to my first post, and had been following along since then

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Originally Posted by ladd

i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU

but thanks anyway

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If you can't beat em, join em.

Vote: ladd

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i do agree that monstr/i have a lot of partner equity e t c

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why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two posts. Okay and this post too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads to me.

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Originally Posted by Cape90

You are reading the same Winston as I am right?

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With all love and respect, please don’t take this as dismissive, but I’m going to need your thoughts on these posts rather than just links to them because that tells me nothing and you’re putting all the onus on me to understand your 2nd strongest wolf read when I’ve already put them in a slightly good pile

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Originally Posted by Cape90

why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two posts. Okay and this post too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads to me.

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the quoted post is a reference to a different game so im dismissing "why would he write this as maf"

sunbae, can you explain what your thoughts on the cuth/monstr thing were even if you threw them away?

i felt better about this game when I went to sleep

ladd
newcomb
katze

HK
Cuth

cape
Sunbae
Benneh
Zack

i like this more probably tho i kinda feel the #d1alliancetier has a wolf

i don't really like sleep posts anymore, he kinda feels like a tryhard wolf who found an easy villager to bury and look villagery with

i'll be back for a pop in before EoD

#VC

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Originally Posted by ladd

i don't really like sleep posts anymore, he kinda feels like a tryhard wolf who found an easy villager to bury and look villagery with

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im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...

is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it

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Originally Posted by katze

im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...

is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it

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i didnt even know newcomb posted it

i actually thought of it before going to sleep when he made that post:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

i read over capes response to my wallpost and i really dont like it

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its the exact same thing i say as a wolf when trying to bury a villager and i thought cape answer was fine

hopefully thats enough proof for you, officer

shrug

i cant exactly prove if you read a wallpost or not so fair enough and good night

i don't think sunbae handles my push like this if he is a wolf and knows i am a villager and right

mostly the whole warning his top villas that i may be a wolf pocketing them seems like genuine concern rather than something a wolf would ever think to do for show

and in general i got the impression starting from last night already that he was getting increasingly more frustrated with my push on him (feel free to correct me if i am wrong tho) and holding it back

his wall post seems fine too



I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

sleep

Sup friendos.

late to the party but glad to be here tbh.

gonna read a bit.

In the meantime though, I am going to post IT crowd gifs and you will townread it

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WelllitHon...ie-max-1mb.gif

rask lock v

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

- There's approximately zero chance I spend time writing a wall post about my thoughts on the Cuth/Monstr thing after already admitting that it was messed up on my end and retracting. You are legally allowed to wolf read me for not doing it. Nobody will stop you. I will silently judge you by thinking "lazy read" if you do though. Do you really want that? It sounds devastating.

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I'm really confused at how you went about this. The original read you posted was weird and didn't add up, and you dropped it without any real attempt at explanation afaict and said anyone still caring about is just being lazy. Saying "I messed up" doesn't clear anything up for me. What does that mean? i dont care about a wall, is it not something you can explain in a sentence or two? :dizzy2:

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- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).

- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.

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not sure why this such a big deal to you, i placed ladd at "barely above null" in a halfway through d1 reads list, which means ~nothing and idk how that is being "pocketed". I feel like I missed something with how confident you seem to be, is there more to it than not liking how he approached you?

My biggest problem with ladd is that his post(s) expressing concern/fear/whatever on me just seemed like kind of fake, but he hadn't done that yet as of this post.

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- On a similar front, I have no idea why Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious. Me of all people will be thrilled to pew pew into someone, you know this. I think his handling of it is villagery, just ... incorrect.

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Again... not sure what the deal is here. I explained it clearly, and "Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious" is pretty frustrating to read when that is not remotely what I said at all. I said that you saying you hadn't read the setup and making a post that essentially claimed VT seemed bizarrely out of character for you based on my experience, and felt performative.

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- Idk, still kinda think Cape is a wolf but I'm trying to give my boy zack some credit on a strong villa read there and giving it some space. I don't mind letting it go for now.

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Why are people so down on Cape? I mean I could be wrong and he could be a wolf, but it does seem to me like "pushing on things that look bad vs. pushing on things that actually make someone likely to flip wolf" as Newcomb said, idgi. :shrug: (though I dont want to put words in his mouth and am not sure what his actual read on Cape is; on that note, I agree with Newcomb in that Sleep's tunnel on Cape also makes me uneasy - think they've been cleared a bit too easily).

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think I'm just gonna Vote: Monty for now

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just for the record, this isn't an ironclad meta-read or anything, it's partly to see how he reacts / light a fire under his bum. (if ladd is a wolf he may have tmi'd monty town in #554 :curtain:)

more generally, v possible we are v/v and having a hard time communicating with each other

also this is somewhat tangential but i think newcomb is probably Just A Villager here

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Originally Posted by ladd

couple of zack's post overnight actually gave me the FEAR

1) calling cuth out for asking too many questions felt level 0

2) the monty push

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this is the post i was talking about. like no offense but this seems kind of, well... dumb. :hide: do you really believe this? these two things are giving you the FEAR, seriously?

the cuth post was not very serious (and i thought that was clear given how it was presented, but maybe not)

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Originally Posted by zack

cuth is asking too many questions

he's been moved to sightly below null

make your own content bronana :furious3:

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I'm finding it hard to believe ladd saw this post and thought holy crap, zack might be a wolf!!!

#things that didnt happen

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Originally Posted by ladd

can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and why

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

You.

Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.

Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.

Monstr for the weak approach and being there in a meh capacity. Also the post about trying more as wolf pings badly on my "But if I was wolf I would" ping. (Yes, I do that as town. Shut up.)

Katze because I can't live with someone better than me at lyrical genius around.

I want to prelude that these reads are subject to change with revision and half of them are jokes.

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Originally Posted by ladd

i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MU

but thanks anyway

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

If you can't beat em, join em.

Vote: ladd

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is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other

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Originally Posted by katze

im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...

is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it

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if I say this was a good katze post, will you take me off the bottom of your list? :pirate2:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

Cuth looked better pretty much every post they made after my initial post suspecting them

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Originally Posted by Cape90

why does mafia make this post literally ever?

I also like these two posts. Okay and this post too ;)

Not to mention they had these similar reads to me.

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see, this is the kind of sequence I like

it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.

that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape

like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts

:creep:

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Originally Posted by zack

I'm finding it hard to believe ladd saw this post and thought holy crap, zack might be a wolf!!!

#things that didnt happen

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i saw that post and your monty push

you don't really push lhf like you did monty as a villager ime, in fact I think 1 of yours (and visor actually) biggest villa tells is that you tend to see the "what if they are a vilager angle" of the so called easy mislunches, like you are doing with cape for example (regardless of whether or not he is a villager)

you going after monty was spooky, then I saw the other orgers thought he was a wolf too so maybe I was missing some meta but from a quick skim of 2 of his games he seems like a perfectly competent wolf so i dont realy see whats up

but i guess I overstimated how much you believe both your monty wolf read on yrou stuff wrt cuth

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Originally Posted by zack

is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other

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yougotus.gif

update on the STATS

people i "suspected": 4

people who think i am a wolf for reasons related to that: 3

people who havent checked in yet after i suspected them: 1

i am batting a solid 75%, maybe a chance to go for 100% even

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Originally Posted by Sleep

im going to slice this first post backwards, for no other reason than i want to save the part i feel strongest about for last, although all of it bothers me

okay, so, a lot of cape's early posting can be summed up as "doesn't get jokes". now, not getting jokes isn't inherently wolfy. but take note of the verbiage here - "a little odd". not only is it hedgy it stops short of actually making a call on my alignment - "odd" does not equate to "wolfy", townies can be "odd". it's a little thing but often wolves tend to avoid directly actually calling anything wolfy.

additionally he says katze's response seems "justified" - what parts of that post seem justified? it's...an obvious joke about voting "sleep" to take a nap. it's messing around, there's

again, not getting a joke is not a crime in and of itself but it doesn't seem to me like he's actually reading what is being said in a critical way

now, running back in time 5 seconds, we have another instance of cape not getting a fairly obvious joke

the problem here is he's only responding to this post with a cookie-cutter, broad brushstroke argument - "busywork". what parts of that post seem like busywork? we don't know, because cape doesn't respond to any of the content within. to me this looks like he's making reads based on form rather than content, which is again wolfy because it's a sign that he's not actually reading the game critically - if he had actually tried to engage with any of the "points" zack made in that post i'd be willing to give credit for being tryhardy even if he missed an obvious joke. but as it is, it doesn't look like he actually tried to meaningfully evaluate the stuff zack was saying, because I think if anyone puts more than two seconds of thought into reading his words they'd say "oh, this is an obvious joke".

as it is, it looks like he saw that it looked like a post by post analysis list and decided to call it busy work and shade it. he didn't stop to actually read it.

this part here is just...super wolfy? "hey guys, surprised no one is calling this wolfy, i mean i dont, but you might?". it's such a bizzre comment to make, like he's tossing out a bit of bait to see if someone will bite, but keeping his own distance from it. the problem is this: if he doesn't believe that sort of thing is a meaningful tell, why bring it up at all?

it just doesn't read like a natural thought at all. when someone doesn't think a post is alignment indicative, they typically don't talk about it. but here he's simultaneously trying to shade the post and distance himself from it. i dont get the sense this is something said by someone who is trying to find wolves.

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"i don't see it" in response to an early wolfread push. not inherently bad in and of itself, but it is the kind of thing wolves frequently say in the earlygame - being dismissive of early wolfreads is an easy way to fake content, because all they have to do is disagree with people. wolves rarely are the type to lead a charge on someone so they'll often hold back when someone makes a stretchy case in the early game

i can sense some people probably rolling their eyes at this, and that's fine, it's a very minor point but i still wanted to discuss it because it pinged me. like i said, by itself this isn't a strong point at all because it can easily be said by a villager, but within the body of work i find it problematic.

says nothing, does nothing.

what, exactly, is there to like about this post? it's kind of generically agreeable in that it makes a point about how to play the game, and I agree that some forward momentum is preferable to a tepid, stagnant game, but it doesn't actually give me feelings on newcomb's alignment one way or the other. and again the verbiage of "in a sort of random way" is another statement that doesn't really do anything except to soften the read that follows.

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first point, he "doesn't like" a read. but does it mean anything for ladds alignment? he doesn't bother to say. it's easy to agree or disagree with things other people say, but what is harder is to generate your own analysis and thoughts. and what we have is that he is "sort of villagery" (again, more soft language) for "actually the same reasons", which...doesn't make sense at all? it doesn't actually meaningfully address the points ladd is making. why is he villagery for mostly responding to things or "posting just to post"? it's a totally half-baked response, there's nothing in cape's posts that gives a real indicator of why he thinks ender is villagery.

This is a very pedantic sort of dismissal to ender that doesn't really engage with the substance of the argument being made at all. "you said he was putting it forward as if it was a deep read, but it was on one post so it can't be deep at all". which, okay, but he very clearly meant it as a serious read, and cape selectively cuts off the latter parts of his post where ender gets into the more elaborate parts of his thinking about how wolves sometimes try to get too serious too early and hard switch. it doesnt look like hes meaningfully evaluating or considering enders words, just blandly dismissing a point he feels is eay to shoot down. this looks like cape isnt actually trying to read neb or ender. it kind of feeds back into what i said earlier about wolves tending to spend a lot of time in the early game shooting down reads rather than trying to solve.

(fwiw, i did like nebjiamn trying to make a serious accusation early there, and i think the antsiness to move the game forward and disappointment at being engaged with is towny. i didnt really want to respond to the read at the time though because th read itself felt stretchy and it would be more useful to see how the person being accused responds to it rather than saying anything myself. i think dobbys response to it is fine for now. i dont agree with enders take that it could be a wolf play although i understand the reasoning)

this is maybe the most egregious instance of cape's hedgy verbiage - why qualify the read in this way? how can something almost look really wolfy?i can find it understandable only finding something slightly suspicious in the early game, but this just comes across like he's afraid to throw a punch. reads very unnatural. either it's really wolfy or it isn't.

that is to say nothing of how again this is an egregious misreading of katze's post - if he was actually paying attention he'd have noticed the second line talks about a "pasta" and i assume cape is at least familiar enough with the concept of "copypasta" to know what that means.

and again not getting smeone's inside joke is not a crime, but what this again demonstrates is that cape is not really reading posts critically, but selectively, picking and choosing things to comment on. he picks out the first and last lines to attack while missing the part that tells him the bottom part of the post is fake and therefore irrelevant.

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again with the verbiage heavy on qualifiers, cape can hardly make a read without distancing himself from it

and again he can't actually bring himself to say how the post was supposed to be an "attempt at doing something". he doesn't engage with the substance at all. zack called something like 90% of the posts to that point wolfy, which is obviously absurd. i dont...get the sense cape was actually reading or evaluating that post in a meaningful way, just glossing it over and assuming it had to have been serious

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sleep seems to be making the most nefarious interpretations for ~everything cape says. even obvious wolves dont do as many wolfy things as sleep is accusing cape of doing in 12 hours

tbh knowing who sleep is would help a ton and its kinda lame to sign up on an alt in a game like this

https://media.giphy.com/media/jPAdK8Nfzzwt2/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Sleep

i read over capes response to my wallpost and i really dont like it

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can you go in some detail on what exactly you really don't like?

Tally as of #570 (editing in)

3 Cape90 (Sleep, Katze, Winston)
3 Monty (Zack, Csargo, Sunbae)
2 Monstrdude (Monty, Hollowkatt)
1 Csargo (Cape90)
1 Winston Hughes (Cuthillius)
1 Hollowkatt (Monstrdude)
1 Newcomb (Nebjiamn)
1 Katze (Newcomb)
1 ladd (Enderwiggin)
1 Sleep (Ladd)

Remember, if you do not vote using the Vote: Format with the colon, i aint gonna count it. its in the rules.

vote:sleep