Though, I do wonder what an EB created LS legion with the dirty look other EB units have, would look like.
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Though, I do wonder what an EB created LS legion with the dirty look other EB units have, would look like.
That is brilliant Gebeleisis. A balloon is in order I think... :balloon2:
Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gebeleisis
Did you make that picture? I should put that picture in the FAQ...
Whoops, forgot about the timeline!:dizzy2:
@Gaivs
Why is it that you think LS is ugky, I like LH but LS is the bomb.:inquisitive:
BTW, where is the picture of the M2TW legion unit at? I cant find it.
Don't mind me , just setting my watch by this thread .:vanish:
nah i did not make it :)
i found it here
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...1&postcount=68
thx for the balloon dough :D
its my first:laugh4:
What is the purpose of a balloon? Is it like rep?
its 4 fun :)
It is pure randomness. Have one. :balloon:
Lorica Segmentata, which btw isnt its true name, we dont know what the Romans called it, possibly Lorica Lamina or something. The thing is, we get this whole Segmentata deal from Trajans column, but its widely accepted that his column is over stylized, probably out of simplicity to distinguish all Romans as one. So as such, we get an over representation of LS, where as in actual fact, Hamata was far more common than LS
if you wan't to know what a legionary c.100AD mostly looked like look at that romanian monument (ada...whatever)-anything but LS and attic helms.
*Ibrahim goes off to look at it again*
it's "adamclisi tropaeum".
i think we can solve both problems,make lorica segmentata(:dizzy2: i hate the name already) a gold armour upgrade to the legionaries,that can be made only in uber blcksmiths that come around the year ~-10, +15,maybe some guys can get the romans evolve faster in technology?
we can do that dont we?:idea2:
How about you go and requrest the mod in the EB mod forum.
isnt this the one?:inquisitive:
I guess it can be done, but it assumes that LS was indeed an upgrade over lorica hamata. That is debatable, in fact one of EB's Roman experts argues it was a downgrade. And, as yet, the magnitude of the upgrade cannot be modded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gebeleisis
well i may think its not necesarily to upgrade,like make a special small blacksmith type of building that allows to upgrade it?
Oh Gebel.! why are you so eager for the LS? like I said, look up the adamclisi tropaeum and look at romans at the time LS was supposedly at the hight of it's use-again, anything but LS is on it (it's a war memorial set up by legionaries in Dacia, and it's quite realistic for a crude bas relief). here's the link to one legionary from there:
http://www.gk.ro/sarmizegetusa/ranis...es/falx_03.jpg
Why do people dislike the LS so much? If its at the end of the time period then it is what it is right? Trajans column depicts the roman Legionaries wearing lorica segmentata and auxilia wearing the hamatata. So what would you get, 15 turns or something if they include it historically?
LS armor IS superior for comfort due to the design, The weight is distributed much better, alot of the weight is held by your hips.
Is it superior due to its design for piercing/arrow protection. The curved plates would deflect the force away from the impact point while chain just absorbs the impact. Chain offers good protection from slashing and blunt trama.
Thin chain is not very useful either(check out the history channel this week, they have some tests done) and to have be effective would require a much more elaborate design, very tight and thick, (see the link below), but it is very heavy and cumbersome.
Who wants to walk around all day with a heavy chainmail on, no thanks.
I would chose LS anyday.
http://www.legionxxiv.org/loricapage/
Because popular history think that legions should be professional, LS wearing bamfs from the 3rd century BC onwards.
Its superiority is debatable.
LS possibly implemented as Ancillary or trait?
Lorica Segmentata
-This character wheres a Lorica Segmentata, the improved armour has some benefit, unless you request it for the entire army then you'll be considered mad: Give +1 hitpoints
lol
well ibrahim im not a fan of LS but i toguht this way we could satisfy both sides,
us - cause it wont be in use
and the ls lovers who cant rant anymore,anyways,what are the plans for armour upgrades?:idea2:
regardless of whats superior or whatever people like or dislike, based JUST for historical accuracy , the Kalkriese version of the lorica segmentata should be included at 20BC via a special building or blacksmith upgrade or whatever.
Many many many other units and time periods have been introduced into the game with much less historical proof. You shouldnt let peoples disgust for something get in the way of historical accuracy.
"The currently recognised types being the Kalkriese (c. 20 B.C. to A.D. 50), Corbridge (c. A.D. 40 to A.D. 120), and Newstead (c. A.D. 120 to 250) types"
the above statement isnt mine, it was taken from websites that do reenactments. There are ALOT of different sources stating exactly this.
* Someone might say well it was found in 9ad on the rank and file as well as depicted, so it should be included in 9ad not 20bc.
These groups say 20bc for a reason. Plus Common sense will say that in order for the rank and file to get it issued to them it could not have been right off the blacksmiths anvil. Alot of sources say it was probobly created during the last century bc.
Now, As far as whats superior, its really not debatable. You can wear a much heavier suit of armor longer due to the weight distribution. Take a physics class and do the calculations yourself for the incoming force(im being serious too, get the pattern of the most common types of ls and chainmail and do the extensive math required((the romans used a 4 in 1 pattern btw, no evidence of 6 in1 or 8 in 1 ever)) check out " mail tests performed by Dr. Williams" and also the book "The Great Warbow". It also doesnt take a genius to understand that the incoming force impacting on an angled surface will cause much of the force to be redirected and not absorbed like the chainmail will.
you could always buy both armors and have a buddy of yours shoot arrows and throw spears at you, youll get a good feel for the comfort trying to dodge them too! :laugh4:
From a historical viewpoint of the EB mod itself, very few if anyone has ever played up to 20 BC in their Roman campaign. Therefore it is simply not worth the time, effort and unit slot, along with special building or "blacksmith" or whatever else would be required for the EB team to include the Kalkriese lorica segmentata, as has been stated many, many times. (I must admit, however, I would be tempted to play up to 20 BC for those LS units :P)Quote:
Originally Posted by Iasonis
/me load multiplayer EDU and plays with LS that way.
I agree, this is definitely true. Also M2TW allows for three different sets of armor. Maybe at a certain era, one could be for LS and the other two for LH seeing that it was not immediatley replaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iasonis
Here is another ballon.:balloon3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gebeleisis
That is a exellent idea!
look: as I have stated above, the LS was in use for quite a long time, but it is evident that it was actually rare: think about it:
1-the depictions are overwhelmingly in Italia (and most of them from rome)
2-most provincial (admittedly not all) show the overwhelming majority in chain mail (e.g: adamclisi)
3-no one knows what the roman name for the LS really was; shouldn't that tell anyone here something? they have a roman name for LH, LSq, and even LPlum, but no known contemporary name for the LS; if it was really that common, let alone standard issue, shouldn't it pop up in some history of the exercitus (army) somewhere? why doesn't anyone give 2 F's about it in the manuals and histories? because it was too rare & exotic to matter!:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop: :sweatdrop:
what explains the preponderance of the LS in Italian carvings?2 things:
1-they wanted to tell one group from another (legionaries, Auxiliaris, and cav.)
2-maybe the LS was a parade armor, or artistic standard adopted to a reason known only to the sculpturers (like the romans in Attic helm on the Trajan column)
lastly: all archeological finds were dug up for the most part in Auxiliary forts/ sites (judging from what I have read)
Oh EB team! hope a member is reading-put that in the info on the cohors imperatoria
*Ibrahim dies*
This is incorrect, read below:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahim
1) depictions are not primarily in italia, in fact, actual LS is depicted all over the empire. --->
Alba Iulia monument, found in Romania/Antonine Column in Rome/The Arch of Septimius Severus/The funerary stele of Marcus Aurelius Diodorus from Hierapolis--turkey/The Column of Marcus Aurelius/Arch of Constantine after 300ad taken from an aurelian monument/Trajan’s column, which tells the story of Trajan’s conquest of Dacia ca. AD 102-105, depicts nearly 300 legionaries wearing the lorica segmentata/
2)depends on the time period your talking about. obviously before the armor was in use there wouldnt be any depictions of it now would there be ;)
3) what manual of history are you speaking of?
1) i dont need to comment on this one obviously
2)Many many depictions of this combined with archeological findings of the LS in actual military forts expecially in far off reaches of the empire.-not primarily parade armor.
lastly) -----lastly they were not mostly dug up in auxiliary forts:
The Roman legionary fortress of Isca contained about 9 excavation sites alone/Kalkriese, Germany /Cobridge and Chichester, United Kingdom respectively/Trimontium (Newstead), which came into use around 100 A.D-Corbridge, Northumberland, produced fragments of between three and twelve cuirasses/Carnuntum an important Roman army camp in what is now Austria.
some pics of the real stuff-
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryE...dy-Armour.html
aparently on the history channel there was a professor shooting recreated LS with a xbow...which just bounces right off, i havent seen it. If anyone knows the name of the series its in id appreciate it thanks.
i still think the let your friend throw spears or shoot at you with arrows would be the best test....maybe they willl find your body 1000 yrs from now and think our poeple still used LS....
EB said they won't do this since units get a hard coded armor bonus. Maybe if the next patch changes that... if it comes out the team might consider using the armor system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemons