it was canceled here a long time ago. i can't even writ*is whisked away by white men in black suits*Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
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it was canceled here a long time ago. i can't even writ*is whisked away by white men in black suits*Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Well that was a bad response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
The Koran is a violent text. So is the Old Testament. They call on their followers to do violent things to people in the name of God. The difference is that the believers in the Koran are still doing insane and violent things in the name of it on a larger scale and have recently multiplied their population in the Netherlands. How would you feel if a few million people dropped out of a time warp from the 11th century into your country?
That is reality. George Bush is an idiot if he thinks that people won't tell the truth. I think that it's official - he is an idiot. There, I said it - the straw that broke the camel's back. He is a huge disappointment. Welcome to my world where I voted for him twice and he did nothing that I wanted him to do.
Um. It is his country?Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
And a few million people? Have you any idea about the situation in the Netherlands at all? The immigration isn't a recent thing. The amount of Muslims isn't. All it is is an increase in mass hysteria fostered by precisely those politicians such as Wilders. Honestly, I have to try my hardest not to fall for Godwin's law here. :laugh4:
Uhm, no, the first violation of Goodwins law was in the film, by Wilders...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
EU constitution? Fortunately no such thing exists....Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John
Yeah, who would want sense to be common? :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
well i assume there are some sort of founding document(s) upon which EU law is based? do these address fundamental rights of individuals at all? if not, then my question becaomes: does holland's law have any limitations on free speech similar to US law?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Europe consists of a bunch of individual countries, with individual laws...Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John
As for common ground, there is the Human Rights Charter from the UN, which most european countries have worked into their legal system(I believe it's an EU obligation to do so), and given it the highest status, through the european human rights court.
As to the question, I would think no, because I don't think there is any ground in either the HR charter or rulings in the european HR court to have any limits on the freedom of speech. It doesn't stop countries making laws with that intent though, like Norway still has a blasphemy law. But it would prove impossible to convict anyone on such laws, since the courts would rule that the law in question is illegal.
Lifeleak removed it, weak. Not a word in the movie that is unacceptable.
No not a word frag , but two images that are now subject to legal action under breach of copyright :yes:Quote:
Lifeleak removed it, weak. Not a word in the movie that is unacceptable.
Uncle Kurt has a point, he never drawed to be used for political propaganda. Second mistake is just daft.
Strawman, Adrian. I did not say free speech was about to be canceled in the EU, but that statements from various heads of government and the like saying freedom of speech doesn't apply to offending people doesn't bode well. Surely you agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
And I have criticized the stupid 'campaign finance law' passed by McCain and democrat friends that forbids groups to run ads mentioning a candidate 30 days or less before an election (or something like that) for the scummy unconstitutional crap that it is, and Bush for being a spineless coward to sign it into law and pass the buck to the supreme court, which failed.
But we still have the idea in the USA that even the most despicable groups get to have their say. It's why the ACLU defends the KKK's right to free speech.
Bah. Find the many stories yourself. Christians have had much worse than any Danish cartoon drawn about them in the west and no-one rioted. There's a plethora of examples of mindless insult to Christianity that didn't meet with violence. Go find the links yourself.Quote:
Well for a measure of that to be made someone would have to make a film about dutch white supremacists who call themselves Christian and then turn it into an attack on all Christianity .
Again, wrong. I'm sure you can find the stories, but I must ask for you to cease posting such false information.Quote:
no , they are willing to accomodate ordinary people , the extremists don't even come into it .
CR
Rabbit , would you by any chance be talking bollox ?
If you think uncurtailed free speech is wonderful and certainly only offends and gets a reaction from Muslims as Christians are really beyond such matters I suggest you go to a Celtic pub and say something derogatory about the Pope ......and see if you end up with an extra big smile carved across the side of your face .
The thing is that the people in that pub probably wouldn't also want to kill your family, your friends, your countrymen, and everyone who looks a bit like you because of what you say about the Pope. People frequently ridicule Christianity and the Pope but we seldom see mobs across the globe burning effigies and calling for suicide bombings because of it. By and large Western society got over having such sacred cows a some time ago.
You clearly havn't come across the more radical fanatical celtic fans then Furious :yes:Quote:
The thing is that the people in that pub probably wouldn't also want to kill your family, your friends, your countrymen, and everyone who looks a bit like you because of what you say about the Pope.
Now of course such things do not apply to all Celtic fans any more than they apply to all Rangers fans , some of them are just followers of soccer , its just the radical fanatics that are the problem and its those that get all the headlines in the Western Media .~;)
Well that may be the case but I think it is apples and oranges. I seldom see the managers of soccer teams trying to make excuses for rioting and so on, but in relation to this issue we are getting constant demands from Muslim leaders, both religious and governmental (and purportedly moderate ones), for national and international laws to be amended to prohibit anything that offends religious groups. So I think you are understating the extent of this silly hang up.
Oranges ? that would be them Rangers nuts:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:Quote:
Well that may be the case but I think it is apples and oranges.
No I understand the extent of this silly hang up . Its Wilders silly hang up isn't it .:yes:Quote:
So I think you are understating the extent of this silly hang up.
Wow. I wasn't even talking about that. Are you saying drunk football fans at a home pub getting angry are the same as enormous widespread riots against cartoons published weeks before that? I just want to gauge how far you are willing to stretch the meanings of different events just so you can say 'bollox'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
And back on the 'We like freedom of speech but you mustn't offend anyone angle:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080328/...rmany_islam_dc
Oh, and Liveleak pulled the video after receiving serious threats to their employees:Quote:
Muslims unhappy at German "Satanic Verses" staging
By Carolyn Palmer Fri Mar 28, 1:06 PM ET
BERLIN (Reuters) - A German Muslim group said on Friday protests were likely against the first ever staging of a dramatized version of Salman Rushdie's controversial book "The Satanic Verses" in Potsdam near Berlin on Sunday.
Nurhan Soykan, spokeswoman for the central council of Muslims in Germany, told Reuters Muslims believed in a free press and freedom of opinion.
"But even this has its boundaries," she said. "We're worried that provocations and insults against us have increased recently. I wouldn't want to ban (the play) but you can bet on protests from Muslim people. They can't be expected to put up with everything."
A misunderstanding, I'm sure since this is the "Religion of Peace" we're talking about.Quote:
Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.
CR
What a load of bull. You don't see Jews staging a protest every time The Merchant of Venice is performed. And IMO Merchant of Venice is far more disparaging of Judaism than Satanic Verses is of Islam.
But of course. ~;)Quote:
A misunderstanding, I'm sure since this is the "Religion of Peace" we're talking about.
"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes?
Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions,
senses, affections, passions?
fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons,
subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer,
as a Christian is?
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?
and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?
anti-antisemitism if you ask me.
ps, people with taste should stage a protest ever time the satanic verses is played what a load of crap. That fatwa is the best thing that ever happened to him.
But then again, the utterer of said speech was by the end of the story stripped of his wealth, his daughter, and his religion.
:drama1:
The fact that he isn't completily evil and doesn't get high on christian baby-blood says enough considering the time it was written. Maybe I am wrong but that's what I got out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirinus
Very true, I suppose. But at the same time, does The Satanic Verses portray Muslims getting high on infidel baby blood? The point I was getting at is that there's a double standard involved there:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Some get high on being angry I suppose, some muslims have surface to feet homing toes, can't miss them.
edit: Pat Condel says it all; http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6635...aftermath.html
edit: Tribes is going to love this, yes same guy
http://www.elsevier.nl/artimg/200803/wilders(4).jpg
On the other hand, these same people wouldn't torch the American embassy or boycot USA products just because Jack Chick publishes yet another anti catholic tract. What's your point?Quote:
If you think uncurtailed free speech is wonderful and certainly only offends and gets a reaction from Muslims as Christians are really beyond such matters I suggest you go to a Celtic pub and say something derogatory about the Pope ......and see if you end up with an extra big smile carved across the side of your face .
The last US embassy fire wasn't done by muslims though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
but the mosselmen were involved in the conflagration! don't you get it?! we're all going to die!!! :skull:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Deleted hotlinked picture. BG
Poor Balkenende, this will probably be enough for a complete nervous breakdown but at least his wife will sleep in a therapeutic vibrating bed.
That's funny. I heard they were mad at a Dutchman named 'Galt Wilsom'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I am sooo intimidated.
:coffeenews:
All a joke to you isn't, wait until they boycott our foreign aid we will be so screwed :skull:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II