Bloody hell. Father locking his daughter in the basement for 24 years

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Torture is not justified, morally, as a form of punishment. To use it demeans the society condoning same and the individuals involved.

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:bow: Well said.

I think we simply have to accept that there are 'monsters' like this in every society. Some of them may have been 'created' by particular circumstances, but those usually remain beyond anyone's knowledge until the monstrosities erupt into the public consciousness.

But that is only part of the explanation of why these things happen. The other part is that the monsters usually go undetected for some time, and sometimes for a very long time, after they first strike. And the circumstances that make this possible always invite close scrutiny.

I recall that when the Belgian 'Dutroux scandal' erupted in 1996, experts and social commentators initially looked for 'root causes' of the scandal in Belgian society, in Wallonian politics, in Roman Catholicism or in the sexual revolution of the 1960's. Interesting as they may have been, such analyses were somehow never really convincing. After some years, a more sophisticated approach by artists (literary authors, filmmakers) began to take hold. Their books and movies concentrated on the question what type of social networks and arrangements, customs and traditions allowed such things to happen unseen for so long. The existence of aberrant types like Dutroux was taken for granted, the fact that they could apparently remain unchecked and even flourish was not. They demonstrated that the living conditions and social arrangements in a once thriving, but now forgotten and poverty-ridden provincial town like Charleroi were conducive to all sorts of abuse, Dutroux being merely the tip of an iceberg of profound social and moral decay. Their analyses (or rather, their artistic approaches) were far more convincing.

When you look at it that way, there may be something to what the British correspondent said about Austrian society and a cult of secrecy and dissimulation.

There's no point in torturing him.

He should just be wiped off this earth as quickly as possible.

What the **** is wrong with these people? Gah, is there any point even asking that?

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

What the **** is wrong with these people? Gah, is there any point even asking that?

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Yes there is. But i fear the answer is disappointing in that all sociopaths are different and got that way for different reasons. Some have clearly been accidents waiting to happen since their early youth, others suddenly 'snap', still others gradually deteriorate over the years. But I have no doubt that forensic profiling can be very helpful in preventing crimes, flushing our probable suspects or tracking down perpetrators.

We just need to watch more CSI and Diagnosis Murder.

Dr. Sloan will get them all in no time!

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

We just need to watch more CSI and Diagnosis Murder.

Dr. Sloan will get them all in no time!

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The flipside is victimology, an underrated discipline of criminology. It profiles (potential) victims which can be very useful if you want to know where a perpetrator may strike next, or if you want to set up a successful sting operation.

Killing this excuse of a human would be like shooting a fatally injured animal, act of mercy. I dont think he deserves any mercy. Just another case of locking up and throwing away the key. I cant even start to comprehend how traumatized the victims of this monster are.:shame:

Quite an ordeal his children had to go through, I feel for them. Still, I am surprised that the other children would just watch him rape their mother/sister without stopping him, since he must have gone down there alone. Afterall, they must have been capable of stopping a 73 year old guy.

We need to deal with these people like the English did Edward II, we don't want to kill him immediately. I want him to suffer, and suffer, and suffer, and suffer, and suffer, and suffer. Etc. And when he is but a snuff flame of a human being. Indignify him by locking him up and letting him starve to death.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Quite an ordeal his children had to go through, I feel for them. Still, I am surprised that the other children would just watch him rape their mother/sister without stopping him, since he must have gone down there alone. Afterall, they must have been capable of stopping a 73 year old guy.

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Stockholm syndrome, threats, etc etc...

Remember, the kids have probably never been outside that basement, the 73-year old is everything they know...

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

We need to deal with these people like the English did Edward II, we don't want to kill him immediately. I want him to suffer, and suffer, and suffer, and suffer, and suffer, and suffer. Etc. And when he is but a snuff flame of a human being. Indignify him by locking him up and letting him starve to death.

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What the hell?

He is obviously mad, and does not/cannot function within social boundaries.
I'm not victimizing him, because it's the truth with nutters like this guy, they cannot help it unless there is some intervention by others. What he did is disgusting, as is his mind, but he is still human and is suffering a very human condition.
Killing or torturing him to death is just as disgusting as his crime, except we are not insane, so perhaps it's worse?

This is the first news story I've ever read that was so horrific it gave me a nightmare. Egads, we all turn into such wimps once we have kids. Well, at least, some of us do. This guy stayed the same sick ***** he'd always been.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Stockholm syndrome, threats, etc etc...

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Indeed. The Kampusch girl has posthumously forgiven her captor and she even says she pities him - as in pitiful, not pathetic. It may or may not be a good idea to let her talk to the Fritzl women, but I guess it shows that the ambiguity of the victim can considerably prolong the crime.

@ Lemur, sorry to hear that. I never have nightmares, but yeah, if I did this would be the stuff of them.

The wife must be just as mad, never noticing. Bollox. And what about the neighbours and local shopowners, surely something would have been noticed by them since he'd have to buy a heck of a lot of food, etcetera.

I just have to distance me from this... I might go insane.
Just the thought of the possibility of other similar cases not discovered in this world, turns my stomack.

Ignorance is bliss.

Well, it seems like the results are in, and he is indeed the father.

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Officials have said Mr Fritzl faces up to 15 years in prison if he is eventually convicted on charges of rape and sequestration.

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I know he's 74, so it doesn't really matter that much, but does that seem a bit of a light sentence, or is it just me?

Im usually pretty light on sentencing (or my opinions on sentencing are) but 15 years for what he did over 24 years ?!

He should get more than 15 just for crimes against his daughter let alone what he did to "thier" kids

It's a European thing. You should know that BKS.

Well, I'm no lawyer, but I'd assume that he'd be facing multiple counts of false imprisonment, which I thought was a pretty serious crime?

And don't sentences get cut short for good behaviour? So this guy could be out in mabye 10 years?

Give credit where its due, the Yanks would deal with this man properly.

Thinking on it shouldn't this man be in a mental institute until the end of his days..... i find it hard to believe this man isn't insane....

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Thinking on it shouldn't this man be in a mental institute until the end of his days..... i find it hard to believe this man isn't insane....

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I wonder how his daughter is.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

It's a European thing. You should know that BKS.

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It's an Austrian thing. And DPA says they will want to put him away for life.

Wien (dpa) - Jahrzehntelang hielt er seine Kinder in einem dunklen Keller-Verlies gefangen, nun kommt der geständige Inzest-Vater Josef Fritzl vermutlich selbst nie wieder frei.
Dem 73-Jährigen werden nach Auskunft der Staatsanwaltschaft St. Pölten vom Dienstag Vergewaltigung, sexueller Missbrauch und Freiheitsberaubung vorgeworfen. Auf schwere Freiheitsberaubung und Vergewaltigung stehen in Österreich zusammen insgesamt 25 Jahre Gefängnis. Medienberichten zufolge prüft die Staatsanwaltschaft auch den Vorwurf des Mordes durch unterlassene Hilfeleistung im Falle des nach der Geburt gestorbenen Zwillings. Möglicherweise verbringt Fritzl den Rest seines Lebens hinter Gittern.

That's 25 years for rape and deprivation of freedom, plus life for wrongful death.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

It's an Austrian thing. And DPA says they will want to put him away for life.

Wien (dpa) - Jahrzehntelang hielt er seine Kinder in einem dunklen Keller-Verlies gefangen, nun kommt der geständige Inzest-Vater Josef Fritzl vermutlich selbst nie wieder frei.
Gegen den 73-Jährigen wird nach Auskunft der Staatsanwaltschaft St. Pölten vom Dienstag auch wegen Mordes durch Unterlassen ermittelt. Zudem werden ihm Vergewaltigung, sexueller Missbrauch und Freiheitsberaubung vorgeworfen. Möglicherweise verbringt Fritzl den Rest seines Lebens hinter Gittern.

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And Dutch and German...

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

And don't sentences get cut short for good behaviour? So this guy could be out in mabye 10 years?

Give credit where its due, the Yanks would deal with this man properly.

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A capital mistake it is indeed to allow a state to deprive innhabitants of life.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

And Dutch and German...

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Eh? :dizzy2:

He imprisoned his daughter and other children/grandchildren for 24 years and he might get 15?!?! Where is his 24 years to life? :furious3:

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Originally Posted by spmetla

He imprisoned his daughter and other children/grandchildren for 24 years and he might get 15?!?! Where is his 24 years to life? :furious3:

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Hello-hoo... :balloon2:

Well the Austrian juridical system just allows for punishment for the gravest charge. It has both merits and shortfalls. This case shows cleary what can be wrong with it.

Both grave delicts were committed in Northeast Austria, a part of Austria I'm not familiar with. Generally spoken there is a clear West-East difference within Austria.

Actually I hate to read about crime. But in this case it is almost impossible not to come in touch with it. Terrible. My thoughts go first of all to the mother and her children. May they have a real life now, under the beauty of the sky.

OA

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Hello-hoo... :balloon2:

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I don't know how I missed that. :shame: Thanks!

I thought someone would notice the food but then I thought:

A) If he buys at more then one large supermarket they aren't going to recognise him.
B) How many checkout chicks do I know? None. And I shop fairly regularly at about half a dozen large supermarkets (specials, time of day, milk & bread vs laundry vs a large batch of groceries).
C) Apparently he has several properties... so he could have claimed to be out working them to his wife.

This was an interesting part in the news:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dun...234894378.html

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Franz Polzer, head of the Lower Austrian Bureau of Criminal Affairs, said there was "no evidence" indicating that Fritzl's wife, Rosemarie, knew what was going on or was involved.

Polzer also said records show that Fritzl had no criminal past dating beyond 15 years, adding that the statute of limitations would apply to any earlier offences. But he would not elaborate.

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So he might have a criminal past, but it isn't allowed to be mentioned.