Can Ken, or ken Boris become London Mayor?

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

I like that he understands that homosexual marriage will eliminate any obstacles regarding marring plurally or even inanimate/living objects. I also like that he recognizes that Islam is a violent religion and doesn't buy into the "religion of peace" idea.

I don't like that he cheated on his wife(/s) numerous times and lied about it - each time. I don't like that he plagiarized things. He is a sloppy mess. I don't like that he is clearly an opportunistic politician that would go anywhere and represent anyone to get into a powerful position. Thats all that I've really got so far.

I am sure that you like and dislike him for the exact opposite reasons - including some more important reasons like his economic agenda. He is a shallow mess - but he highlights just tired of Livingstone everybody was. This is the realistic equivalent of electing a rock into office instead of old Kenny-boy.

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The impression I got wasn't that everyone was tired of Livingstone, but everyone wanted to give Labour a good kicking, and Johnson was a good figure to unite behind. Livingstone is still extremely popular, as seen in his significant vote (when compared with the Labour vote elsewhere), but even he can't shrug off the dislike of the Labour party proper.

I wonder if Boris will host Have I Got News For You while he's mayor. After all, that's what got him the job.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

The man seems like a degenerate liar and womanizer, but at least he is a change.

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Well I don't think being a degenerate liar and womanizer is unusual for a politician. I do wonder what his stance on cigars is though...:laugh4:

I'm quite happy Boris won, but that's only because I don't have to live in London. I and the rest of the country will very much enjoy watching the ensuing chaos over the next four years.

If you vote for a joke candidate, the joke is on you.

Hopefully this will end Livingstone's war on Porsche and other automakers.


Oh, and at least he recognizes islam for what it is, not that he will/can do anything about it.

Interesting tuff , you like his election for two reasons that have nothing to do with his policies or new job and you dislike him for things that are also nothing to do with his policies or job .

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I am sure that you like and dislike him for the exact opposite reasons

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
I dislike some of his policies because they make no sense , are highly impractical or downright contradictory .

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The impression I got wasn't that everyone was tired of Livingstone, but everyone wanted to give Labour a good kicking, and Johnson was a good figure to unite behind. Livingstone is still extremely popular, as seen in his significant vote (when compared with the Labour vote elsewhere), but even he can't shrug off the dislike of the Labour party proper.

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Now that seems like a good view Pann , especially when you consider the large turnout in suburban London , which is kinda funny really since Labour has always tried to distance itself from Livingstone .

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Hopefully this will end Livingstone's war on Porsche and other automakers.

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It appears that someone hasn't got a clue about boris and his policies:dizzy2:

Boris is a really funny guy, my view is london have hired a really expensive comedian for 4 years.

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Now that seems like a good view Pann , especially when you consider the large turnout in suburban London , which is kinda funny really since Labour has always tried to distance itself from Livingstone .

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Aye from a corrupt, arrogant-beyond-belief Trotskyite alcoholic, pissing money away with the help of people like Lee Jasper.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

It appears that someone hasn't got a clue about boris and his policies:dizzy2:

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Doesn't surprise me. Most anti-Ken posters dislike anything having to do with socialism, so Boris is automatically their favourite. What does surprise me is that Boris hasn't yet run over a Muslim or Scouser on his bike ('Oh crumbs!') or inadvertently offended a foreign head of state ('The Sultan of what, you say?').

But it's not a very powerful position at all, it it? There is not much a London Mayor can do about employment, housing, edumacation and a host of other things. Crime - a bit. Public transport - just enough. Public and communal relations - a hell of a lot.

Contrary to some perceptions I think Boris' lack of experience is a big advantage. His thought and discourse haven't been thoroughly politicised. I will give you an example. To Boris, crime is not a series of statistics in which mean burglary balances out median homicide in such a way that one could say 'Look, crime is down!' and keep a straight face on it. Apparently Boris still sees crime for what it is, with people shooting and knifing each other at the top of the list, and he plans to actually do something about it without union demands, political correctness and real estate heavyweights getting in the way.

Whether he can succeed is a big question.

Furthermore I think he has a better take than Livingstone on what it means to represent Britain's capital. Johnson wouldn't invite murdering sheiks and other idiots. On the other hand he wouldn't back a character like Ian Blair to the hilt and in spite of an Old Bailey verdict that the murder of Jean Charles de Menezes was a 'corporate failing'. Johnson has stopped just short of demanding Blair's resignation, but he intends to give a badly needed 'yank at the steering wheel of the Met'. Livingstone backed Blair with the argument that 'he has the full support of the force'.

Never mind the public.

No doubt I've got it all wrong and someone is going to tell me that Boris Johnson was Saddam Hussein's roommate at Eton or that he took money from the Pope. Whateva, I'm using me own loaf.

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Doesn't surprise me. Most anti-Ken posters dislike anything having to do with socialism, so Boris is automatically their favourite.

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Don't you find that many of Johnsons policies are in the socialist vein though ?
I think the main difference in the two is that Livingstone was too focused on central London .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Don't you find that many of Johnsons policies are in the socialist vein though ?

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He is an ardent supporter of Hillary Clinton, if that's what you mean. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Don't you find that many of Johnsons policies are in the socialist vein though ?
I think the main difference in the two is that Livingstone was too focused on central London .

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Infrastructure-wise, central London as defined by the Circle Line is by a huge distance the most important area, with everything going through there.

It'd be interesting to see a map of the wards, coloured red or blue.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Infrastructure-wise, central London as defined by the Circle Line is by a huge distance the most important area, with everything going through there.

It'd be interesting to see a map of the wards, coloured red or blue.

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I think Tribesman means Johnson has managed to mobilize suburbia, where a lot of people live who appear to be surprisingly convinced that they are Londoners, too.

EDIT
I forgot to mention that Johnson wants to strip the Commissioner's Office of its responsibility for counter-terrorism. Tribesy, do you think that is a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

No doubt I've got it all wrong and someone is going to tell me that Boris Johnson was Saddam Hussein's roommate at Eton or that he took money from the Pope. Whateva, I'm using me own loaf.

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Well, he did steal Tariq Aziz's cigar case. Allegedly.

I think it's wonderful that a multi-cultural paradigm such as London now has a Turk for her mayor.

:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

I think Tribesman means Johnson has managed to mobilize suburbia, where a lot of people live who appear to be surprisingly convinced that they are Londoners, too.

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Being one of those suburbaners, I'm nonetheless quite aware that most of our lives still run through central London. It's not such a hassle to have a largely neglected local council, but a rundown central London affects us all.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

I think it's wonderful that a multi-cultural paradigm such as London now has a Turk for her mayor.

:2thumbsup:

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Circassian, old boy.

And a fierce tribe they are.
Manners: none.
Customs: beastly.
Just what we need to sort London out.
https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6529/toffgifjk3.gif

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Circassian, old boy.

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That's a red herring. What great family doesn't have slave blood somewhere in the old pedigree?

His great-grandaddy was an interior minister of the Ottoman Empire and made the significant mistake of arresting one Kemal Atatürk - an error which got him beaten to death.

One trusts the immigrant Muslim scion Boris de Pfeffel will fare better. :wink3:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Interesting tuff , you like his election for two reasons that have nothing to do with his policies or new job and you dislike him for things that are also nothing to do with his policies or job .

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
I dislike some of his policies because they make no sense , are highly impractical or downright contradictory .


Now that seems like a good view Pann , especially when you consider the large turnout in suburban London , which is kinda funny really since Labour has always tried to distance itself from Livingstone .

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All I know about Boris is what I read from BBC, other online papers and Wiki. If I ever have information not related to internet reading, I will let you know.

My general knowledge about Johnson leads me to believe that he may not be the most scrupulous man, even when compared to other politicians. (not including the Aziz cigarette case which he never really stole)

Look at Tony Blair, for example. Have there ever been accusations of extra-marital affairs, plagiarism, etc? No, just that he might have entered into some shadowy dealings as PM - can anyone avoid those in any other area of their life? I doubt it, and that is saying nothing of the demands of running the British empire (small E)

The major difference between U.S. politics and British politics is that we hold our politicians accountable for personal failings and any compunction to become demigods whereas it is celebrated in the U.K.

Involved in a Gay or heterosexual affair behind your husband/wife's back? Good for you! Use drugs on the company dime? Keep up the good work!

Mind you guys like Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, Bloomberg, Sarkozy, Burlusconi, etc are trying to catch up with the politics of Britain. Sensationalist, arbitrary demigods who believe that laws and restraint don't apply to them.

Add Johnson to the list of those scuzbuckets. They do a decent job of running things, mostly because they are autocrats. Both the left and the right need to hold themselves to higher standards.

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All I know about Boris is what I read from BBC, other online papers and Wiki. If I ever have information not related to internet reading, I will let you know.

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Well Tuff since the topic is about the mayoral election and my question was about his policies for that office do you not think his election manifesto might be a good place to start ?
I do believe it is on that internet thingy for people to read on them newfangled machines ...though the 41 pages are presented in pdf format and I recently discovered that some might consider that format as biased and dangerous , however his election web page does give a brief summary of the policies without having to use the insidious adobe thingamywhatsit .
If you look really carefully on a source like the BBC you might notice that on the stories about the election it has clicky thingies about all the candidates , perhaps those clicky thingies may just lead to all the candidates websites and election manifestos .

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The major difference between U.S. politics and British politics is that we hold our politicians accountable for personal failings and any compunction to become demigods whereas it is celebrated in the U.K.

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Well that is certainly a strange take on UK politics .

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It'd be interesting to see a map of the wards, coloured red or blue.

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no surprises , all of central apart from west (obviously) went easily to Livingstone all the suburbs apart from Brent and NE went to Johnston easily . The only close contest was Merton/Wandsworth which straddles the suburb/central divide anyway .

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I forgot to mention that Johnson wants to strip the Commissioner's Office of its responsibility for counter-terrorism. Tribesy, do you think that is a good idea?

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Yes , besides the fact that Blair and his team screwed up really badly counter terrorism needs the bigger approach at higher levels , not to take away all the responsibilities of course as everything of tht nature needs to be co-ordinated through the local levels , but Londons commisioner should be under a national commisioner and not as now in its own right .
But on policing as a whole what gets me about Boris is his aims of cutting paperwork , he wants to build a force that people can trust and reduce the form filling , one thing he is focussing on is the SAS paperwork .Now forgive me for having something called a memory but the whole introduction of that system of safeguards was because the police were blatantly abusing the proceedure and causing a major loss in trust in the police .

I think for all those people who slagged off Ken's charater and said how much of a failure he has been should not only watch Boris' acceptance speech but most importantly Ken's. It made me get more than a little emotional - I will admit it. He has been a giant of London and of the left in this country and he is going to be missed, I will miss him. London failed, we have now turned a significant and important position into a local, national and global laughing stock. Shocking.

Let the start of the rollback in free / discounted admission on the bus' for those under 16 and on low incomes begin.

Adrian - The position of the London Mayor IS significant, not only because it does hold significant powers but that the powers are shifting and expanding.

I have just done my dissertation on this exact topic, the Greater London Authority Act which was passed recently not only made the Mayor more substantial in his role with different aspects of local government but far more powerful in that role - more of the same will follow. We are moving in this country from local government being based on local councils to Mayor's - whatever you think of that, and there are clear benefits and problems it is happening, and Boris is not the man to have at the healm when things are in flux.

I had a good laugh when I read this:

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Originally Posted by Richard Barnbrook's Wiki page

Constituency
Barking

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Well Tuff since the topic is about the mayoral election and my question was about his policies for that office do you not think his election manifesto might be a good place to start ?
I do believe it is on that internet thingy for people to read on them newfangled machines ...though the 41 pages are presented in pdf format and I recently discovered that some might consider that format as biased and dangerous , however his election web page does give a brief summary of the policies without having to use the insidious adobe thingamywhatsit .
If you look really carefully on a source like the BBC you might notice that on the stories about the election it has clicky thingies about all the candidates , perhaps those clicky thingies may just lead to all the candidates websites and election manifestos .


Well that is certainly a strange take on UK politics .

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Your condescension might be less irritating if it was more concise.

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Your condescension might be less irritating if it was more concise.

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Oh you want the concise version
OK then .
How on earth can you answer a question on a candidates policies if you havn't got the faintest idea what those policies are ?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yes , besides the fact that Blair and his team screwed up really badly counter terrorism needs the bigger approach at higher levels , not to take away all the responsibilities of course as everything of that nature needs to be co-ordinated through the local levels , but Londons commisioner should be under a national commisioner and not as now in its own right .

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The reason I'm asking is that Johnson's decision would take the copper out of anti-terrorism and anti-terrorism out of the copper, so to speak. I'm researching similar issues in my own country. Of course we haven't been put to the test as much as Britain was, both prior to 9/11 and after it.

It's a bit of a guess whether the proposition of a national superpolice charged almost uniquely with anti-terrorism would improve security compared to the regional, devoluted set-up of tasks and security arrangements that we have right now. When it comes to countering both home-grown or imported terrorism, good communal policing is as important as having high-wired observation and arrest teams. And of course you need proper channels and continuous feedback between the two. On the other hand you don't want your local constable to be associated too much with the 'heavies' and the database fetishists. It's a fine line.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

It appears that someone hasn't got a clue about boris and his policies:dizzy2:

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Absolutely not. I live in another country...

So no relief for sports cars then? So wrong on so many levels....:dizzy2:

Of course Autoblog may not be the best source for unbiased policy discussion. :laugh4:

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So no relief for sports cars then? So wrong on so many levels....

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Errrrrr...yes Panzer :dizzy2:
Oh sorry , its London you know , that place where you are generally crawling in nose to tail traffic and a granny on roller skates is quicker than a ferrari .
I find it funny that you favour someone who thinks people should walk or get the bus and then mention sports cars for London .
Oh I get it , London .. that has a motorway round it , when it doesn't have the variable speed restrictions active on it you are allowed to drive quite fast on a motorway so a sports car could be fun...then again that motorway is known as Londons biggest car park so perhaps the super performance of a penis extention wouldn't really come into play there .

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It's a bit of a guess whether the proposition of a national superpolice charged almost uniquely with anti-terrorism would improve security compared to the regional, devoluted set-up of tasks and security arrangements that we have right now.

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Yep , complicated isn't it , does it work better with special branch having clear overall authority or dual authority or being put under local authority in each district ?
On the one hand you have you have problems with duplication and failures in co-ordination , on the other extreme you can have them as in the past becoming a law unto themselves .
Overall though I think most of Johnsons law and order policies are only window dressing and those that are not are pretty identical to Livngstones anyway .
One good thing from the London election is the BNPs poor performance ...then again I did think their expectation of 3-4 assembly seats was very over optimistic .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

On the one hand you have you have problems with duplication and failures in co-ordination , on the other extreme you can have them as in the past becoming a law unto themselves .

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Well, there you go. And apart from the service push, there is the political pull. For instance I believe Margaret Thatcher became a bit overconfident about the capabilities of the SAS after the 1980 Iranian embassy hostage crisis, resulting in their detachment to law enforcement in Britain and Northern Ireland, and I believe there were even plans to employ them against the miners strike. You don't want that sort of thing in a democracy, for obvious reasons.

On the other hand there's the public perception of government negligence if it appears that you don't have the sort of superpolice that can deal with really hairy situations. When a serious attack occurs, it's all well and good to tell people that it was just a malcontent who disagreed with our government and left a few thousand dead Dutchmen in his wake, and that more poeple die each year in traffic and so on, but somehow a surprisingly large section of the public wont buy into that.

It isn't true either, because only 800 people die in Dutch traffic each year.

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You don't want that sort of thing in a democracy, for obvious reasons.

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Oh come on Adrian , the miners strike , next thing you are going to make a crazy accusation about their involvement with things like the Newbury by-pass protests , or the rambers assocition or the pro and anti-hunting groups .