Breaking open the front of a phalanx

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Originally Posted by Africanvs

Now that would have been a very interesting turn of events. By the way, before Alexander adapted the tactics for his men to create lanes and allow the chariots to enter the phalanx, were the horses just charging into the pikes? Was this successful? I imagine if he had to create the tactic, it must have been somewhat successful at the very least resulting in a lot of broken spears.

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I imagine the chariots would not have charged the pikewall, but instead entered the gaps between the pike formations. I doubt the pike units could have formed an entirely unbroken pikewall, especially when they still had to march towards the enemy.

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Originally Posted by lobf

Couldn't battering rams work against the front of a phalanx? Either send in a ram with dudes behind it or have men inside of it to hop out when it's in the phalanx.

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Man, that's about the craziest thing I've ever heard... First of all, it would be very slow moving, giving more than enough time for light/heavy infantry or cavalry to turn them into pudding. Secondly, you would need many men to actually penentrate the pike wall, as a typical Macedonian syntagma was 16 men deep, so you would have quite a lot of force to oppose. Thirdly, if men would be inside, they would easily be massacred by just about any unit...

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

Man, that's about the craziest thing I've ever heard... First of all, it would be very slow moving, giving more than enough time for light/heavy infantry or cavalry to turn them into pudding. Secondly, you would need many men to actually penentrate the pike wall, as a typical Macedonian syntagma was 16 men deep, so you would have quite a lot of force to oppose. Thirdly, if men would be inside, they would easily be massacred by just about any unit...

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Then turn the battering eam into a covered wagon with fire ports for archers and slingers :smash:

I was thinking of a huge V shaped shield with 6~8 shield straps designed to be carried like a shield but by 6~8 people, and then put this at the front of the wedge and everyone else push from inside or behind. Once the phalanx breaks the 6~8 guys would throw this huge shield aside and fight without a shield (or if they could somehow carry a spare one)

Could actually be used against the shield wall of the riot police. A wedge is powerful under any circumstance after all.

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

Man, that's about the craziest thing I've ever heard... First of all, it would be very slow moving, giving more than enough time for light/heavy infantry or cavalry to turn them into pudding. Secondly, you would need many men to actually penentrate the pike wall, as a typical Macedonian syntagma was 16 men deep, so you would have quite a lot of force to oppose. Thirdly, if men would be inside, they would easily be massacred by just about any unit...

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Heh, just a thought. I figured with enough momentum a weighted ram could at least bust open their ranks for a little while. But I suppose if it were that easy someone would have done it.

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Originally Posted by Xurr

Ahh, did they have infantry running after to exploit the gaps?

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I will have to check my book for that. Unfortunately I will be in my parents' house for the weekend so wait until monday.

which battle by who was that?

You would need very disciplined troops to actually charge an enemy formation diagonally, rather than facing the enemies directly. Because while they charge the phalanx at an angle, they are not leaving themselves well protected once they get by the first of, say, six pikes.

Reminds me of Culloden. OK that was a gunpowder battle, but basically the British troops were ordered not to defend themselves with their bayonets, but the man to their right.

The idea behind this was that it would allow them to stab the unprotected sides of the charging Jacobites, who still fought with sword and shield. So every bayonet would be hitting the Jacobites sword-side, leaving no shield protection for them.

This tactic just about worked in the end, although the left flank of the Brits nearly broke at one stage.