What is the obsession with archers?

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

The video is the epitome of pawn. It is just a shame that the publically available edition is so abridged that it spans less than fifteen minutes; The archival footage was much longer, had significantly better quality and the audio was even useful for direct sampling. Proof of its existance was featured, very briefly in the BBC-sponsored documentary "<i>The Last Shah</i>".

My favourites, without a doubt were the Parthian and Sassanian knights, but the care they put into the regimental parade music is perhaps the most interesting aspect of it all.

For everyone else; Make sure you see this and this.

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~:eek: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

WDIT: ok, I'm back, and I've nailed my jaws shut. anywaays:

wasn't he the guy who made a golden toilet for himself (the shah?)-just wondering.
I also have some questions on sassanid and parthian clothes: the barding isawesome-is that where you all get part of the idea for the armor? that's neet!! (and shiny)

my main complain is that in 1.1, alot of the archers in the east only carry like 15-20 arrows. I am not talking about the elite archers.

Well, I'm having no particular complaints with the strength of archers in my Baktria campaign.

I have even defeated two units of Argyraspide Seleukid mail veil guys primarily with the archers (2/3 casualties).

Not shooting from dead on in front of the enemy is a big thing.
Get in behind or round the side & you can do some big damage quickly.

Against those plentiful eastern unarmoured units its almost like the good old days of Shogun:TW with Samurai Archers slaughtering rank on rank of Ashigaru :yes:

Edit: I think the effectiveness or otherwise of archers has a lot to do with unit size too.
4 units of 160 soldiers all shooting arrows is vastly more arrows than 4 units of 80 + similarly more targets, so there is more percentage chance of getting a hit & with more hits per volley, higher chance of kills.

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my main complain is that in 1.1, alot of the archers in the east only carry like 15-20 arrows. I am not talking about the elite archers.

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Carrying arrows can get quite bulky after a while, especially when you're carrying more than ten. I believe the eastern archers have at least 30+.

Archers are awesome, especially horse archers. As a HA general all you have to do is shoot all your arrows into the enemy and then hurl your heavy cavalry in and the enemy crumbles. foot archers are useful from city walls or in defencive battles when there is plenty time to finish all your arrows on the enemy.

General aetius

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Actually, due to the fact that we have statted archery in this manner, Eastern foot-archery does feel somewhat under-powered (This is ultimately because in gameplay mechanics, all archers are more or less the same). Greeks mainly used archery as a part of their psiloi; In the East, archery along with the shock of the horse were the two most important instruments in deciding the battle. In other words, two different paradigms. We hope to solve this issue in EB2.

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You're kidding! I've played a couple of games as Baktria and one of the most effective ways of winning battles is to get lots of Subeshi Archers and shoot the enemy to pieces before they can even touch me. It doesn't work as well on heavy units, but there are other ways to deal with those.

The Subeshi archers are different in an important sense; We made them awesome for one reason only, and that was their superior equipment (The Subeshi bow for instance was one of the most advanced bows of its time, and the arrows used by them may according to some analysis on arrows in Pazyryk have exceeded some 80cm, or two feet and nine-ten inches), allowing them to out-range horse-archers, as foot-archers with their ground platform, as opposed to the horse-back, always had the advantage of stationary precision, as well as the greater capacity of storing the energy, the Subeshi bow dwarfens the Western-Scythian model. If the Subeshi archers rock, then it is intended for it :smash:

However what they have in punch, they lack in versatility. I'd almost compare it to the Iberian solifera and the its tactical usage by Iberian warriors to the pila used by the Romans. The soliferum is absolutely devastating, but the pilum is not the baby's javelin toy either. The Medean-Achaemenian archer formations, with shield-walls, spears and continuous hails, with newly introduced Western-Scythian bows and a greater influx of the Parthian-style gorytoi... If we sacrifice slightly on the nasty punch of the proto-Hunnic bows of the Subeshi and Qum-Darya, but add safety-measures such as light but large and tough pavises, some padded armour and a big stick to discourage light horse, along with a tried and tested archer tactic, and I think it sums up versatility in a nutshell.

Unfortunately on the RTW engine, options are limited, but with M2TW and the "stakes" feature, which I hope can be tweaked for our pursposes, I think we've got better prospects ahead of us.

Am I alone to think that this cavalryman's helmet looks awfully (Greek/Etruscan/)Roman in style? And the shoulder-'pads' awfully... Greek?
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images...d_Cavalary.gif
(Hawt picture btw, prettyprettypretty. And yeash, I 'stole' from the site TPC linked to. Gonna check it out in detail when I've got the time. :yes: )

AFAIK that pattern of "tube-and-yoke" corselet originated in Egypt, what with the developement of the linothorax-type textile cuirass (likely) from the old New Kingdom infantry soft-armours during the Saïtic period. Both the Greeks and Persians (who were nothing if not willing to pick up armaments and tactics they found effective from foreigners) knew a good thing when they saw one and cheerfully adopted it on a wide scale - encrusting the thing with metal scales was a similarly universal means of augmenting its defensive value, provided the warrior was willing to deal with the extra expense, weight and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

AFAIK that pattern of "tube-and-yoke" corselet originated in Egypt, what with the developement of the linothorax-type textile cuirass (likely) from the old New Kingdom infantry soft-armours during the Saïtic period. Both the Greeks and Persians (who were nothing if not willing to pick up armaments and tactics they found effective from foreigners) knew a good thing when they saw one and cheerfully adopted it on a wide scale - encrusting the thing with metal scales was a similarly universal means of augmenting its defensive value, provided the warrior was willing to deal with the extra expense, weight and whatnot.

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Ha!

I was trying to get someone who actually knows about the subject to come and enlighten me, so, thanks. I was eager to know where from the influences come or if they were actually of Persian origin. Now, I only "need" someone who could tell me the story of that helmet...