Not much talk about one of my most favorite new features: Cover!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liberator

yeah, defending - but there must be other conditions as well - I have only seen it once so far :help:

---

You have to be defending while not having moved the prior turn from what I've seen -- so not if you're intercepted or ambushed, or just took a city, etc. The infantry earthworks are decent but I don't use any of the other "cover" options due to horrible pathing and buggy behavior; It's more efficacious to position units a few steps back from a wall in normal 3-rank formation and let the wall slow any attackers.

Quote:

---

yeah, defending - but there must be other conditions as well - I have only seen it once so far

---

Your army must be dug in, ie it must have been in the same spot on the campaign map for 1 turn without moving and have the wooden stakes shown around it. If this is the case and you are attacked you get the chance to build defences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feanaro

Hiding behind walls is actually a bad idea when facing melee units like buccaneers or Native Americans. First, the firepower of your units is lessened. Only the front row seems to fire. Some have said fire by ranks makes this better but it seems silly that I have to research that to get a decent RoF from my guys.

---

I agree taking cover behind a wall is a bad idea when facing melee troops. But if melee troops approach your position pull the defenders back and shoot as they have to stop and clear the walls.

My men had no problems when it came to cover until the newest patch.... since then they've been out of formation and only one or two would actually fire, the rest would crotch like scared plebs rather than properly trained soldiers. I liked the cover system until that problem.

Using Buildings for cover seems somewhat useless as only 5 units fire and its hard to attract the enemy to the stationary position. At least the AI doesn't always stay in them while under cannon fire anymore, otherwise they'd be massive graves and not cover.

It all depends on the battle. it has utterly failed me before, but it also saved me. i used it to defend boston from the english with mob infantry. I also used it to defend against prussia who just laughed at me and charged me. it was ridiculously opposite battles. Those trenches you can build are awesome though. very cool feature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Discoman

Using Buildings for cover seems somewhat useless as only 5 units fire and its hard to attract the enemy to the stationary position. At least the AI doesn't always stay in them while under cannon fire anymore, otherwise they'd be massive graves and not cover.

---

On that note, Puckle guns will dismantle a building in seconds, it's been funny watching the eternally garrisoned militia disintegrate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Discoman

Using Buildings for cover seems somewhat useless as only 5 units fire and its hard to attract the enemy to the stationary position. At least the AI doesn't always stay in them while under cannon fire anymore, otherwise they'd be massive graves and not cover.

---

The AI in my game will stand in a building until it falls in on them. :dizzy2:

Anyways, buildings are terrible from a shooting standpoint. You'd be lucky to kill ten enemies before they get inside. Once inside, though, your troops have a significant melee advantage. As GB, one unit of my line infantry was in a small building and, using socket bayonets, went up against a pirate mob of 600. More than half of those pirates were killed or routed by that one unit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feanaro

The AI in my game will stand in a building until it falls in on them. :dizzy2:

Anyways, buildings are terrible from a shooting standpoint. You'd be lucky to kill ten enemies before they get inside. Once inside, though, your troops have a significant melee advantage. As GB, one unit of my line infantry was in a small building and, using socket bayonets, went up against a pirate mob of 600. More than half of those pirates were killed or routed by that one unit.

---

The point of garrisonning isn't against other infantry, but against horses, as I found out in my doomed Maratha campaign.

I had an army of lancers, a demi-cannon and a few Bargir line inf., the Mughal had mostly crummy militia and one unit of those superduper musketeers of theirs (green jackets, red conical hats). On paper (and on the campaign map) it looked like an easy victory, and it started out as such. The lancers dealt with the militia in the open, then came the time to get those musketeers out of a townhall that was well out of cannon range.
Now, Barghir infantry are top notch shooters, but piss poor in melee, esp. without bayonets so first I tried shooting it out... to little effect. By the time I had killed 10 of theirs, 40+ of mine were dead, so I moved them back out of range and had the first unit charge in. Got them all killed, musketeers down to 55. Second unit charged, got slaughtered, musketeers down to 35. Last unit charges, gets slaughtered, musketeers were now down to a dozen or so... Against a bunch of elephants and 4 fresh units of lancers.
Close defeat, and my army torn to bits.

Incidentally, has anyone seen the AI deploy trenches?

I'm my game they always seem to use anti-cavalry defenses even though I typically have no more than 1 or 2 units of cavalry and large numbers of line infantry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PBI

Incidentally, has anyone seen the AI deploy trenches?

---

Yes, although much like the stakes it will often abandon the defensive positions to run halfway across the map for no apparent reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PBI

Incidentally, has anyone seen the AI deploy trenches?

I'm my game they always seem to use anti-cavalry defenses even though I typically have no more than 1 or 2 units of cavalry and large numbers of line infantry.

---

That's because the expected use of cavalry for the AI is to hurl itself at an infantry unit as early as possible in a battle, to then be shattered before the infantry even arrive and flee from the battle. ;)

Seriously though, I've seen trenches a few times, but like you mostly anti-cav defenses. Like Ordani stated, they're almost always abandoned for some random stone wall far away from anything or for a nice artillery-target-practice-suicide-building. The AI also seems happy to abandon it's artillery when it's dug in, so it's wide open to a cavalry attack from behind, since it can't turn with those defensive sandbag things.

Actually, I have never ever had to assault a defensive position in this game. I have always been able to lure the enemy to me, except when they have a fort. The AI always seems to decide it's in trouble as soon as it loses men to missile fire, so as soon as I hit them with a mortar, they send everything that isn't garrisoned or in cover at my line and then I'm free to blow up the buildings the rest of them are hiding in. Alternatively you can flank them with light cavalry, which almost always results in some melee mob being obsessed with the flanking cavalry, to the point where it neatly follows it and walks right by your line to get annihilated, which then results in the previously mentioned behaviour of strange and meaningless attempts at retaliation.