Barbarian Goods and Bads! everybody welcome!!!

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Originally Posted by ziegenpeter

Ahh nevertheless. Once the oil is on your skin you have to rubb sand on it and then scratch it off. Nothing I would like to do.

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Actually, they did that because of the sand. The Hellenes liked to play all kinds of sports in local gymnasia and palestrai (wrestling grounds), which was usually nothing more than a flat surface covered with sand/dirt. As you can imagine, this caused them to get dirty and full of sand. Rubbing oil on one's body has practical benefits (enemy can't grab you that easily), as well as aesthetical (body lines and ripples are toned, plus a shiny skin is always nice to see). Scrapping the sand&sand/dirt mixture off their bodies was then done with a stleggis (as the tool used to scrap the oil off was called) after they were dome exercising.

Maion

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Originally Posted by ziegenpeter

:clown:
Assuming your sig, your danish and you speak german. So their names should be the least strange to you...?
Guessing that skudjunez means "Schütze" in german is much easier (for me) than guessing the meaning of "Ayrudzi Netadzik" (Armenian Horse-Archers)

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Actually I'm not really Danish, I just love the country and its inhavitants.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

When things get really anal in Germany, I'll move to Denmark

Skuðjonez is easy enough to understand, but what about "Xosenthozez Xazdadoi"?:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by athanaric

When things get really anal in Germany, I'll move to Denmark

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You mean if Stoiber had won the election in 02 you'd be living in Denmark right now? :laugh4:
I would love leave germany too for scandinavia, but rather sweden or iceland.
Not forever of course. People from CCAA are bound to their city :2thumbsup:
sorry for this OT

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Originally Posted by athanaric

When things get really anal in Germany, I'll move to Denmark
Skuðjonez is easy enough to understand, but what about "Xosenthozez Xazdadoi"?:dizzy2:

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Its true, the new names from Blitzkrieg are much harder to understand than the 1.1 units.
The old ones where easy to guess if you had some experience in old high german.

EDIT: this is post 250. Congrats to myself!

Well I'm not really a barbarian fan or a veteran but I have started an Arvernia and a Sweboz campaign without going far (letting them rest till I get used to them more).

I however have my impressions with some barbarian units and the factions in General... (if you fight them you need to know them:yes:).

Casse: I never really liked britons but I will try them during the summer (Isolation on an Island sounds nice). What really disturbs me is that they have chariot bodyguards for there generals and I simply can't use chariots. They however have some nice troopers and can get quite safe once you have Britannia in your hands.

Arverni: (I prefer them over the Aedui). Like the most advanced celts they have a nice economy pluss good units (infantry and cavalry alike). The biggest problem of course is first to get rid of the Aedui and then unite Gaul and fight against many foes. One thing I especially like about them is that there reforms are not tied to any date:2thumbsup:

Sweboz: They are also capeable soldiers alhough they are a bit "backword" - the reforms should help this but that is quite late in the game. The thoughest I had with them so far was trying to unite the Germanic peoples - these eleutheroi have some of the most dangerous garisons in all of EB...:beam:

Getai: There position is mixed if you ask me. They have the rich hellens to the south who are divided but can give a fair fight, but they also have the Sauromatae to the east and we know how tough nomads can get. There units are among my favourites - as Makedon, and later even as Koinon Helennon, Arche Seleukeia and of course as any nomad I will make sure to get my hands on thoose Thracians before Heading further North...:yes::2thumbsup:

I am Danish, what??

Anyway, barbaroi...

Only ones I have tried are the Sweboz and only for 50 or so years. I guess it will be that or Bactria or makedonia when I have created Imperum Romanum or get fed up trying without allowing myself to blitz. I felt that their units were somewhat weak, but that is probably as I used them as a "Res Publica Romana Light". Used right and with fear-inducers, it should be funnier. Their economy sucks badly though. I wonder how the AI does so well with Suebi.

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Originally Posted by Macilrille

Their economy sucks badly though. I wonder how the AI does so well with Suebi.

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cheats

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Soaps were in a very primitive form, made from fat and salts. Mostly fat, that is. It probably smelled bad too, or not at all. Plus, it would have been bad for your skin. Soaps that are actually good for you, now those haven't been around since about 100 years if I'm not mistaken.

The Hellenes used olive oil when excercising. It's wrong to say they used it in their everyday lives. Oil is not something you want rubbed on your skin all day, believe me. And the only way to effeciently get it off of you is with a good bath and soap. I know it for one :clown: Don't ask me why I did it though :smash:

Hellenes and Romaioi had baths and saunas (steam baths). They had scented oils, and various perfumes as well. They also had many plant-based incredients that they used on their skins for various reasons, including body health. So I hope this whole "Celts were much cleaner than Romans and Hellenes because they used bloody soap instead of olive oil" thing dies out, because honestly its kind of becoming stupid and annoying to hear. Just like the Hellenes being gay, or Megals Alexandros being a FYROMian. OK maybe not that bad, but you get my point.

Maion

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Even the most rudimentary soaps had a clear purpose: either as medicine or as a cleaning thing. I don't care if it smells bad, as long as it takes the bad dirt out of my body. Celts, and other Northern Cultures, were also especially fond of vapour baths and using herbs and the like to improve odour; even the Vikings were a well washed culture, as stated in Saxon chronicles.

I think in a comparison between public and individual baths and soap vs. oil, the barbarian combination wins overall. We all know olive oil was never as good as soap, especially for disinfecting something. That's the reason we use still soap, only with a slightly different chemical composition.

Besides the reason I prefer individual baths is not only for privacy: communal bathtubs are not exactly a very clean thing, especially to lie naked in and share the water with a lot of people. You all know what I'm talking about.

I just got to say, the Sweboz arent underpowered, they just require different tactics to some other factions.

Barbarians are all fun.

My favourite is the getai. Nothing says "respect me" like a elite Rhomphaioi dicing everything in his path. They are in a reasonably tight spot: maybe not as jammed up at the start as the Aedui but eventually they face powerful foes at all points of the compass. They fight like hell, can stand up with their heavy spears and Orditon Agema, skirmish like hell with the original (and best) peltastai, they have some decent cav and a good palette of auxilliarys. I feel like I am setting western civilisation back a century every time I win a battle with these guys!

My next favourite is the Lusso's. For someone with an irrational dislike of Rome, it lets me be manipular without feeling dirty. As pointed out above they have plenty of metal and fight all day long. To me they are the coolest faction for ambushes as they hide everywhere and everybody has a javelin. They are like the Sweboz only richer, smarter and they don't die as quick. Also cleaner, nicer voices, better food.. (jk)

I am currently playing the Casse, and (aside form my inability to steer a chariot anything close to straight) they are a lot of fun. Great suite of units so little regional armies (true Casse, northern british, Belgae, Irish and now some Iberian tribesmen) under various generals make for variegated gameplay. The reforms really make a difference, as much as the Sweboz, and more IMHO than for the other Gauls, so there's a mid term goal for RP.

I do like the Sweboz, and it starts and ends with the FM BG's. I line up as many FM's as I can in every battle: these guys are generally crap admin (maybe because I rarely leave them in cities?) but by the gods they fight. I like them as much as the KH FM's, and the fact they have sword and spear makes me love them even more. I truly feel like I have a loyal bodyguard around me when I am on general cam facing spammed Romans swarming over the alps. COME AND GET SOME! The fact that every other unit bleeds like a haemophiliac makes the armoured BG's the true gold of the Sweboz. One of the great RP factions for me, I disband the entire army after each mini-campaign, or until I get the reforms.

I don't know why but the two gaul factions are less of a thrill for me: maybe its the twinned unit lists? Still a good ride, more so the Aedui (they feel more legit to me-thats about as coherent as I can be on the topic). As with the Casse the FM's are a delight, generally coming to the party as well rounded governors as well as generals. They really are jammed in tight, and need to fight and even perhaps blitz a little to establish a viable position early.

The downside for all these is I feel like I can't be civilised: urban wonders are routinely sacked (take that, Jupiter Best and Greatest!) and I never never wait out sieges: everything is taken by assault. Also I shed a lot of blood (especially as Gauls and Sweboz) by adopting grimly confrontational battle RPing. I can't see a Roman stack without yelling COME AND GET SOME!

I disagree with the point earlier that the Gauls have no line units. The spearmen that are given are not as top-notch as the Germanics, but the line Northern Gallic Swordsmen I find to be really decent, reliable heavy infantry that can go toe-to-toe with even Roman troops, and most of the time hold their own or better against German troopers.

They're not to expensive either, which makes them really valuable for a line troops. The Southern Gallic swordsmen are not as great, but great mercs for factions lacking in decent sword troops.

My favorite barbaroi.... Well, I like them all for certain reasons, but I guess to come out on top would have to be the Aedui. You can spread your empire around the world and still find Celts ready to recruit, plus, you have to love those beautiful Neitos. Seriously, as the Romans I had two of them in an army, with six units of imperial legions, and while the legions routed against massive Carthaginian numbers, the Neitos held strong and managed to pull off a victory in the end.

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Originally Posted by Christopher Burgoyne

Even the most rudimentary soaps had a clear purpose: either as medicine or as a cleaning thing. I don't care if it smells bad, as long as it takes the bad dirt out of my body. Celts, and other Northern Cultures, were also especially fond of vapour baths and using herbs and the like to improve odour; even the Vikings were a well washed culture, as stated in Saxon chronicles.

I think in a comparison between public and individual baths and soap vs. oil, the barbarian combination wins overall. We all know olive oil was never as good as soap, especially for disinfecting something. That's the reason we use still soap, only with a slightly different chemical composition.

Besides the reason I prefer individual baths is not only for privacy: communal bathtubs are not exactly a very clean thing, especially to lie naked in and share the water with a lot of people. You all know what I'm talking about.

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I'm afraid you're wrong here, sir. Soaps used by Celts at that time had little to nothing to do with modern soaps. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure the Romans would have used it more extensively than baths/saunas. If you evenread what I've written, you'll see that the Hellenes and Romaioi used herbs and scented oils (not olive oil) as well, while oil was scrapped of with a stlengis when they excercised, not in their everyday lives. Imagine being oiled up all day, not very pleasant believe me.

While public baths were quite common in the Hellenic and Roman world, I believe you are not very informed of the structure of a bath complex. Especially later Roman models, had a large number of pumps, draining out the cold (and filthy) water, replenishing it with warm water. The philosophy of such a mechanism is the following: Warm water, meaning warm water molecules that vibrate more intensively than cold ones, are the ones that remain on the upper layer of the water. Cold water, stays at the bottom. So if you have pumps underneath a bath, you can slowly drain out the cold layer, while at the same time you add an equal amount of warm water. This way, you have a continuously warm bath.

Now as far as I know, only the wealthiest Celts had their own warm baths. Most of the people (including the poorer Hellenes and Romaioi), would probably have bathed in rovers/lakes or some public places were some amount of water was gathered.

Maion

Whats cool about the Gatai is, they proximity to Cordinau Orca territory ;)
How can I alter the Casse FM Bodyguards to Calwre or Rycalawre*? chariots are IMO too weak. Or how can I make them a little more reliant, they die like flies. OK on the other hand, properly used, they are awesome dmg dealers, but this can be tweaked as well, so they are less "extreme".

*Or would you rather pick cav like Remi Mairepos?

Gauls actualy have some good early line infantry. Yes, gaeroas and botroas aren't as good as their german counterparts, but can still hold the line on their own, if required. Bataroas do the job very well, and then there are belgae, caturidges and other regionals. Add cavalry and some supporting troops to see your numerous enemies fall. Assuming you have enough money, of course.

However, Swebos have better spear- and swordsmen, more space between their enemies and themselves, very good position to get regionals, better morale and are closer to Finland. Lack of armour isn't that bad, just cry "CHARGE!" if you're being shot.