EB Online Faction Guide

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Originally Posted by Duguntz

phalanx exploit? f*** **f!!! That's not an exploit, that's a weak point they got, that's all. It's like to say : don't use archer against my naked fanas, it's using their weakness and so must be considered as exploit. Yeah, to toss a 21 foot sarrisa away to punch the guy in the face must have been difficult when facing a wall but certainly not impossible! I'm not encouraging to run threw phalanx, i don't do it myself (because my guys have no armors at all... so it'd kill too many of them) but to all hellenes lovers, stop crying that because your phalanx get smashed in a way that it's exploiting the system and damn, accept that even your pike elites have their weakness, wich, in war, is there to be EXPLOITED by your ennemy! yeah, that's the point of war... to exploit the weak points of your ennemy. so, if you don't like that, well, find a way to counter it! we call it : STRATEGY!

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No Duguntz, you got it wrong. It was impossible to just run an entire unit behind a wall of pikes. We don't cry about getting beaten, but certainly we won't sit there cross-armed and watch our armies get obliterated because someone rips our main line apart within seconds.

And yes, it is undoubdly an exploit. A cheat, if you prefer. Because you use the engine against the opponent. Running behind a pikewall ruthlessly without even bothering to shield yourself, would get you impaled. Badly. That's what I believe, at least. But if you employ this exploit with several good sword-wielding units, you'll rip the enemy phalanx line apart in zero time. Your own lossess may be great as well, but in the end you'll win anyway. Especially if you have superior quality armies with chevrons and weapon upgrades.

But you know something? That's my oppinion, and what you stated is yours. You want to use the phalanx exploit yourself because you deem it historically accurate? Fine. But don't try playing against me on-line, because I don't consider myself a cheater nor do I like to play against such people. And Duguntz, obviously I'm not referring to you. I'm referring to anyone who shares the same oppinion as I aforementioned (the pro-phalanx exploit guys) in general.

EDIT: You want my proof of it being an exploit? Give me one occassion under which a non-pike armed army broke a pikewall on a clear, open field against decent (Macedonian) pikemen. Without using any pilae or javelins to disrupt the formation, and without using terrain anomalies as an advantage. As far as I know, the "strategy" you talk about applies to those who actually want to beat a phalanx army, not vise versa. Because the main ojective of a phalanx army, is to pin and outflank. Not to try and keep your phalanxes from being torn apart by men who run behind your lines. Sheesh. If you face a phalanx army, you have to find a way to outflank the enemy. That, my friend, is your strategy. Not mine.

Maion

Ha loo Maion, looks you felt insulted! Relax dude, i was stating that yes, I think that it was possible (altough stupid) to run threw pikes by tossing them (with shield or weapon, obvously not your chest hmmm!)

Now, as i stated before, i myself do not use that tactic, to run threw, because... ambushes are waaaaaay more funny! and appart of bodyguard, I've no unit decent enough to pass threw pikes as my elites are... naked!

so it's just a divergence as some call it cheat, some call it a... dirty tactic! (low waist hit... in boxe therm!)

cheers mate! looking foward to see you on the battlefield!

Eh? Silver Chevron High Lethality Armor Piercing Germans huh? Yeah, that'd probably work but thats +4 to +6 defense and attack to an armor piercing high lethality unit that totally breaks the balancing.

Anyways, you won't probably need the phalanx breaking thing in this tournement, you're not totally gimped against heavy cav like the Romans were(Ironically it wasn't possible with the most gimped Marion Legions) in RvG so might as well not piss off anyone with a pike hard-on :-p.

I'm more concerned with dealing with flying pikes and spinning phalangites.

silver chevron? pfff, what's that? Gold, at least! AND 3 OF THEM! like if we had the money! yeah, I can bet even my naked dudes would break a phalanx from front with those monster bonuses... but for a fairness question, i always fight WITHOUT any ''upgrade'' of any king... All my units already have enough bonuses in the woods, and almost double when in the woods in the winter (combining with the malus that some units of ennemies have in winter!) that makes quiet formidable opponant... hmmm yeah, another thing (and not to argue, just to point it out) talking about he woods, I mean, I understand that pike-lovers hates player who just run head on in their pikes and succesfully disrupt their formation (although i don't do it, I'm still thinking it's more a tactic than a cheat!) But what about that, to compare cheat with cheat : In danse woods.. your pikes stay in a perfect formation, as impenetrable than in the open!!! (and I unfortunatly tasted it myself many times!) yeah, that's the fault of the system, i know it, but just as to charge in phalanx with good enough swordmen is also the fault of the system... when you sprang an ambush and you wait far in the woods and hope for a disruption, Dang, how disapointing it is... Because for the sake of NOT cheating, yeah, i hope that the woods would disrupt any pike formation, and more than that, physicly make it impossible to enter a decent formation... So guys, here'S the deal : I'm agree with you and start campaining against the use of the system and exploit against phalanx-pike, I already don't do it myself, but to make it more fare (and roleplaying as sweboz) not even put on defense mode against phalanx! but on the other side, pikes do not use ''phalanx'' ability in danse woods... too much? think about a pike of 21 foot in the forest and tell me if it's too much... I think it's fair for everybody, no cheat and no cheat, and that way neither player would exploit the system... any opinion guys?

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Originally Posted by Duguntz

Ha loo Maion, looks you felt insulted! Relax dude, i was stating that yes, I think that it was possible (altough stupid) to run threw pikes by tossing them (with shield or weapon, obvously not your chest hmmm!)

Now, as i stated before, i myself do not use that tactic, to run threw, because... ambushes are waaaaaay more funny! and appart of bodyguard, I've no unit decent enough to pass threw pikes as my elites are... naked!

so it's just a divergence as some call it cheat, some call it a... dirty tactic! (low waist hit... in boxe therm!)

cheers mate! looking foward to see you on the battlefield!

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Not insulted at all, mate. Just a little frustrated about the fact that you don't show me any real evidence about a "decent sword infantry unit' being able to disrupt a pikewall in a few seconds.

Just remember how terrified te Romans were when facing the Macedonian phalanx (Aemilius' quote after the battle of Pydna springs to mind). As far as I've read, the Roman soldiers tried a miltitude of tactics to penentrate the pikewall but to no avail. This includes trying to cutt the spearheads off, shoving the pikes aside and others. But even if you get past the first 2-3 rows by shoving them aside (which would probably have been quite difficult), you still have another 3-2 waiting for you.

And if that is not enough, let me remind you of the legendary conquests of Megas Alexandros himself. He might have been a tactical genius, but he wouldn't have done much if he hadn't one of the finest armies in his disposal.

Maion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duguntz

phalanx exploit? f*** **f!!! That's not an exploit, that's a weak point they got, that's all. It's like to say : don't use archer against my naked fanas, it's using their weakness and so must be considered as exploit.

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That is a wrong analogy. Weak points of phalanx are rear and flank.

indeed it is, NEVER let the enemy slingers pelt your agryaspides from the back!!

Man can someone post a video demostrating what phalanx exploit is???
i mean it will be very helpfull for who dont konw what it is.
becouse its not taking avantage of enemy weekness, is cheating thats all , is a glich of the game and for people who dont kown it , they didnt use it.

I believe you simply click behind the phalanx to get your troops to move through the spears, then when you are amongst the phalanx you attack them. I may be wrong though as I have never tried it, I agree it is somethng of an exploit and prefer to defeat phalanx armies by flanking manoeuvers. Which is hardly difficult.

That's done without finesse, I like my way better. It feels the most legit since it takes some coordination.

AEDUI
It's kind of obvious what 2 do first. BLOW UP THE DAMN ARVERNI!!! Go for Viennos first as this will sever their trade. Then take your main force to Gergovia and starve them out. While ur doing that send Vortigern (ur starting Diplomat) to make peace with the Romans. They might stab you in the back though.Then before they sally attack. Just trust me on this one. Fight well with the 6 seige towers you should of made and capture all towers that could interfere with your assault by shooting at ur men. Take city. Then do the same to Vesontio except that you should build 4 rams instead if they didn't build big wall. If they did then make 6 siege towers. This time attack though if you want to save time. If not starve them out. Then attack and win! If ur lucky Galatia won't rebel to the Arverni. If it does then at least they're out of the way. What i did then is take Masailia. Good port city = lots of trade. Then take Bononia if the Romans haven't already because if they haven't taken it, it will be weakened. Then take Patavium. If the romans haven't atttacked you yet GO TO WAR WITH THEM SO U CAN KICK THIER ARSES. I suggest going down the peninsula taking each city. From then unite the Gallic tribes and it really doesn't matter in which order just be ready in case the the the Sweboz attack if it's 260-255 Be ready for Sweboz. Then you should take your Iberian objective again in order of closest to Bibracte. Then finally prepare a big invasion force to take and hold Calmusadae (How do u spell it?) and Ictis.
THEN CONQUER THE WORLD, MWHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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This was my original guide.


Some others:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Getai:By Ignopotens

Option 1:
- Disband cavalry units and some infantry (not the Light Phalanx, though, they're you're only line-holders for a little while)
- Combine the 2 armies, leave 1 FM behind in Buridava, with taxes at max
- Spend all your money on buildings (I like to build roads, the next MIC, and farms)
- Head North and conquer Sarmiszegethusza (might run into rebels on the way, easy to beat, though)
- Disband most of your army, especially anything that you can recruit with the new MIC you're building in Buridava.
- Wait until you're no longer in the negative, money-wise
- build army again and head over and take Kallatis
- Again disband most of the army, and wait until you have plenty of money, while upgrading MIC's and building whatever else suits you. You should be in a pretty good situation by now, about 10 years in, with a solid economic base and good units available
- Decide which way to expand, if South, pick a Greek faction to fight and ally yourself with the others

Option 2:
- Same as Option 1, but take Kallatis first, don't disband, and head straight to Sarmisz, then disband and wait for the economy to sort itself out


Option 3: By: Drewski

For those who don't mind fights at big odds...

Firstly, take the faction leader (plus any troops in your only city) and swap him for the Northern Army FM, who shall stay in your city. Head North, hire some Galatians mercs. Take the Eastern Army and head East. Set taxes to low (for city growth).

VERY IMPORTANT: Now send your diplomat towards Pella. End turn.

At start of turn 2, check graph to see how much cash Macedon has. Ask for something outrageous like 25,000 for peace. Barter, for as much as you can get (12-14,000 is possible, but try to avoid multiple turn deals, you want a lump sum now even if its less than in the long run)..Hire some mercs for east army, hire one more unit for North Army. Battle North to Sarmis, East to Kalatis simultaneously.Siege for one turn, once ram(s) are built, fight clever and take cities with minimal losses. Whip diplomat up North to get peace with Sarmatians. Take Eastern Army south to Tylis, Northern Army west to Ank. Take cities in same way.

Now head all back to Sarmis (make this your capital) combine remaining spare troops, and head north-east to Bastarnae province (no walls here especially if you are quick)...take this city.

You now have 6 provinces, an economy in the black and an excellent troop base, in only a few short yrs with no disbanding necessary...

Rest is up to you ;)




Sweboz: By athanaric

I'm generally against disbanding starting troops. If they are there, they are there for a purpose. Of course "my way" thus forces you to initially blitz a few settlements lest you dive straight into insane debt.
As a rule of thumb, a Swêboz player (who doesn't disband half of his army) has to blitz approximately four settlements in order to make some profit. I would recommend Rugolandam, Silengolandam (Mines!), Habukolandam and Kimbrolandam as first targets.
By contrast, Baktria has to "blitz" only one province. I highly recommend Paropamisadai (sp?) because like in the aforementioned Silengolandam province you can build highly profitable silver mines there. Additionally, it is out of harm's way should the Saka or Pahlavân attack you.

hum nice guide but this is for EB online not campaing

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Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

hum nice guide but this is for EB online not campaing

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Who cares?

The purpose of the thread maybe?

Maion

I have a few thoughts on Pontos:

First of all, they are the jack of all trades in the almighty EB. They have good heavy infantry (including phalanxes), good heavy cavalry, decent archers, capable skirmishers and a few horse archers. However, they master none of the stuffs mentioned up. You have Chalkaspidai, but they aren't Argyraspides, you have Pontikoi Strategoi, but they aren't Hetairoi and I could continue. So, if someone wants to have a good army with Pontos, then that someone has to know who will be the enemy.

If you fight barbarians:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They tend to be vulnerable against missiles, however they are very good in melee and have some deadly units with AP weapons. To fight them you will need archers, I prefer the Thureopherontes Toxotai, they are not Cretans (I know, Pontos could use them too as mercs, but seriously, aren't they overused a bit?), but still have the "rain of death" effect. Also, you will need good heavy infantry with swords or axes to hold your line, like Galatikoi Kuarothoroi and Tindanotae (Don't forget, Wild men count as elites). Light or medium infantry with javelins is nice too, but don't overdose yourself with them. The question is, do you need phalanxes against this enemy? Not really, of course a few of them won't hurt, Klerouchoi Phalangitai and maybe a Chalkaspidai will do the job. About cavalry, well heavy one, what you need here. I advice the Skuda Uaezdaettae (elites) or Galatikoi Lavotuxri, they will be able to hammer the barbarian line from rear. Let’s not forget that these units are not cheap, so you have to find the balance how you spend your mnai. With such units you will be able to bring down barbarian armies in 1vs1 fights.

If you fight Romans:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cheap and good heavy infantry and decent cavalry with high morale level. One of your two options is to fight them as Hellenes do, use phalanx and heavy cavalry for hammer & anvil and a few flanker infantry. However your units are not as good as the „true” hellens’ so you will have a higher chance to lose the battle if you fight in the „old” fashion. But you can try a similiar to the anti-barbarian tactic too. Your Galatian units are killers, they are better than the legionaries in melee, you can use Thrakioi units also since they are known to be armored-unit-rapers. Don’t forget that your archer units won’t hurt the Romans as much as they did with the barbarians so if I were you I would trade some of them to slingers (Rhodians) or mobile spearmen (going to explain why). A few hillmen (Katpatuka Zanteush) on the flanks won’t hurt either, since they have AP axes and javelins too. Now the cavalry question, you could use the same heavies, buti f the Romans use Extraordinarii cavalry, then it’s a different story, because they will eat you slowly and painfully. That’s why a few mobile spearmen (Hoplitai or Thuerophoroi) and medium cavalry (Lonchophoroi Hippeis) instead of expensive heavy ones will do better in my opinion. If you can protect yourself from their heavy cavalry then your Galatians will overpower the Romani slowly and you will win the battle eventually.

If you fight nomads:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hordes of horse archers and armored heavy cavalry. The nomad fighting styles are all agressive ones, they will attack and you can do nothing, because if you move your finger they run away. So you have to sit down and wait till they run out of ammo. How can we counter the extrem losses on our side before that happens? Honestly I don’t really know, I fought only twice against them online. But my advice is that don’t even try to counter their H/As with your owns, waste of mnai and men, don’t use light armored units either (except a few Thureopherontes Toxotai behind your line(s)). Get Pantodapoi Phalangitai and heavy armored spearmen, like Hoplitai and Galatikoi Kuarothoroi (They have spears too) units. In this battle your role is to be defensive; if they ran out of ammo, they will try to outflank and overwhelm you, if your position breaks you lost.

That’s all right now… if something is inaccurate, then correct me.