Not Again...

Remember Battlefield: Vietnam?

I got my account blocked when I on the forums suggested that the US troops should look a bit younger than 30, like, something like the five 16 year olds who got killed...

I also suggested the game should show some blood when people got shot, and that when you ran into a village you would see children crying and women being raped.



Obviosly my ideas were not popular.

It sickens me when games portray war as something glorious... On the other hand, I dont believe in a ban against violence.

PLEASE do show violence, but do it in a realistic way.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

PLEASE do show violence, but do it in a realistic way.

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Super Mario and Super Smash Brothers are out then, I presume.

Think of all the flattened mushrooms!

I kind of agree with Kadagar i don't think it would be terrible if they showed war to be fairly brutal and horrible... i can understand slight problems with glorifying violence..

Banning violent games is not going to help anything... and there are other good targets if there are... if a game is very sick then i don't mind it being banned (that rape game comes to mind....) but i don't see why it should be any more critically looked at than movies or TV...

I sense more Germans will get on certain sites we are not supposed to mention and illegally obtain those games... No wonder France is not creating a similar law. The lawmakers may have a grain of truth in their proposal, as I cannot imagine the violence being actually beneficial, especially if the smaller children are playing it, which they will, as parents do not check the video games their children buy. Mostly.

However, as Louis suggested sometime earlier, alcohol should be banned as well. Much more harmful. But we all know the problem, as booze is too deeply rooted, especially beer, in Germany. So the lawmakers go after a weak, under-represented in lobbies, issue. However, soon, this will change. Soon, the 20-year-olds will grow up, as will the teens, and both grew up playing video games. Then the politicians will have to contend with them.

Even if the law is passed, it will fail. I do recall other kids saying that in the 90s video game sin Germany would feature various alternatives when some video-game character got shot. Such as convulsing and then dissipating. The article noted that too. This ban will not live.

Piracy will rise, and the game developers will attempt to lobby. Their lobby is unsubstantial however. Despite this, as I said, gamers will grow up, and video games will become inseparable part of out society. Then the politicians will be more circumspect to not altercate with the gamers, just as politicians tread more carefully along alcohol and gun right.

Although, this is Germany, not US. Lobbies are not as influential in Germany as I understand. And guns are controlled. But US is the one with the gun culture. Who knows? The politicians are of advanced age, and they know not of the joys of video games. Most of their constituents are mostly strangers to digital gaming as well. When this changes, more lax laws are expected.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

But when does an alien become "human-like"?

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Based on most film certification blood colour has alot to do with it, red = human = bad. Blue, green etc. = alien = good. Brown could be bad too if its in black & white, (see Psycho).

Ok, yes, this is rediculous, it's way too vague, they could ban the sims because they can die in a fire and could somehow claim that's the point of the game or something.
Import bans were discussed before, if the distribution is prohibited, maybe the customs will sort imported games out, Steam just does what our government wants anyway as we only get censored versions for download here. And since we got providers prohibiting access to child pornography, well, who knows...

Maybe I should finally start looking into this pirate bay thing...

Not like it's enacted yet, I still hope it won't get though congress because it shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Not like it's enacted yet, I still hope it won't get though congress because it shouldn't.

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Congress? Gah!

An Americanism! Europeans, basking as we do in the glory of nearby Britain, ought to refer in English to our parliaments as 'parliament'.

Alternatively, one can leave it untranslated, to respect the different powers that assemblies in different countries have. Bundestag, or Bundesrat will do.


Having said that, back to more important matters: how does one burn Sims? Can I turn my neighbours into Protestants and then burn them at the stake for heresy? Do they scream? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/icons/icon10.gif

Property taxes cause violence! Ban them!

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Originally Posted by wiki

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, USA, on May 18, 1927, which killed 45 people and injured 58. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–12 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history. The perpetrator was school board member Andrew Kehoe, who was upset by a -> property tax <- that had been levied to fund the construction of the school building. He blamed the additional tax for financial hardships which led to foreclosure proceedings against his farm. These events apparently provoked Kehoe to plan his attack.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Congress? Gah!

An Americanism! Europeans, basking as we do in the glory of nearby Britain, ought to refer in English to our parliaments as 'parliament'.

Alternatively, one can leave it untranslated, to respect the different powers that assemblies in different countries have. Bundestag, or Bundesrat will do.


Having said that, back to more important matters: how does one burn Sims? Can I turn my neighbours into Protestants and then burn them at the stake for heresy? Do they scream? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/icons/icon10.gif

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I adapt things sometimes without thinking too much, I think EMFM said congress so I just adapted his use of the word. So much about the workings of a lazy brain....

Sims burn when their oven is set on fire because they can't cook and they stay around the fire for too long, I think you can help them a bit by telling them to go closer, alternatively you can wall them in without doors or let them go swimming, then remove the ladder, one of the more well-known methods. It's obviously a killer game that does not belong in the hands of little girls.

I just came across another (CDU) politician who now talks about what i mentioned earlier, using those child pornography internet blockage laws to block homepages about "killer games"...
The article is in german though, just like the good news about an open letter from an (SPD) politician who says this whole discussion is a completely baseless farce(not exactly his words) and activism and that gamers should not be criminalized like this. Oh, yes, it's here for the german-speaking crowd.
Good to know that he says there are politicians in all parties who think this is rather baseless activism which it really is.
My guess is some politicians underestimated the spread of computer gaming and thought it's a nice minority of people who can be blamed for some school shootings. Turns out they were/are wrong so let's hope most of the members of our congregation of politicans who decide about introducing such a law see it that way as well.

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Originally Posted by Husar

I adapt things sometimes without thinking too much, I think EMFM said congress so I just adapted his use of the word. So much about the workings of a lazy brain....

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I didn't mention it, but the article might have.

Meanwhile, French Courts have gone the other way, and declared unfettered internet access a 'basic human right'.

If this ban is passed, I do sense that there will be a massive surge in Piracy... I wonder if the German government forgot that most Germans are bi-lingual?

Are they?
Overall my impression is that the knowledge of foreign languages among Germans isn't all that great though it probably gets better with the younger generations.

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

If this ban is passed, I do sense that there will be a massive surge in Piracy...

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I know, right? That is what I said too. If Germany does go with this, I also sense they may attempt to pull off a Sarkozy and strike down piracy with hardline laws.

So piracy is a factor in school shootings? Because that is the justification they use, that school shooters own video games and thus the games must be a cause for these horrible acts....

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Meanwhile, French Courts have gone the other way, and declared unfettered internet access a 'basic human right'.

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Curse the République and her pre-occupation with human rights as the last word in everything!

See, nuisances like these are why I no longer want to install a Sixth Republic. I now want to forge myself a Third Empire, that I can execute my grand designs properly. The motto will be: Liberté, Égalité, Louisité.

Can you seriously not play as Nazi Germany with the german edition of HoI2 ?

I am a bit torn...

On one hand, videogames should be videogames..

On the other hand, violence should not be glorious, it should porttray.. well... violence.



My problem is: I do believe in freedom over state laws....

So I will budge with "let it be".

In my perfect world (where I am dictator) violence should be allowed, but only if they show the REAL violence. Not the "shoot a guy in the head and he respawns in 30 sec"- type of violence.




Now for the REAL question....

The nutters who commit crime after having played _insert_game_here_..

How many of them would have done so regardless?

Before that question is answered, I see no reason to discuss this.

If a ban on violence can save a couple of school shootings or whatever, then I am all for it. If those same school shootings would have happened regardless of games, then why ban it?

From my point of view, science has let us down on this issue.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

From my point of view, science has let us down on this issue.

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The SPD guy I linked to somewhere before actually points out that studies and experts so far say that computer games are not a cause for school shootings, but we wouldn't let that get into the way of an easy ban that let's some politicians act like they actually did something about the issue, would we?

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Can you seriously not play as Nazi Germany with the german edition of HoI2 ?

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I believe the only difference is that Nazi Germany has the varioous leader portraits removed. Germany is still playable - its just that they do not have the Nazi flag in any of the languages of the game. Of course, that doesn't stop people from modding them in.

This is the gaming prohibition of the 30ies. Mobsters will be replaced with TPB nerds and money will flow to piracy institutions instead of goverment taxes.
Don't worry, even if the law gets passed, which I doubt, it won't work and it will be reversed sooner or later.

Gamers won't stop playing games just because the goverment says so. It's like that.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I am a bit torn...

On one hand, videogames should be videogames..

On the other hand, violence should not be glorious, it should porttray.. well... violence.



My problem is: I do believe in freedom over state laws....

So I will budge with "let it be".

In my perfect world (where I am dictator) violence should be allowed, but only if they show the REAL violence. Not the "shoot a guy in the head and he respawns in 30 sec"- type of violence.




Now for the REAL question....

The nutters who commit crime after having played _insert_game_here_..

How many of them would have done so regardless?

Before that question is answered, I see no reason to discuss this.

If a ban on violence can save a couple of school shootings or whatever, then I am all for it. If those same school shootings would have happened regardless of games, then why ban it?

From my point of view, science has let us down on this issue.

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Hold on...

I (gulp)

agree

with

Kadagar_AV.

Truly, pigs shall fly, and the end is nigh. :)

I'm dictator in your perfect world too?

;)

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I am a bit torn...

On one hand, videogames should be videogames..

On the other hand, violence should not be glorious, it should porttray.. well... violence.

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Who are you to say how an artist should present his work?

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I'm dictator in your perfect world too?

;)

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No, I am. But the concept is the same. :)

A benevolent dictatorship is the most effective, efficient type of gov't, IMO. Trouble is: I only trust myself in that position, and haven't worked out a good succession plan yet.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

No, I am. But the concept is the same. :)

A benevolent dictatorship is the most effective, efficient type of gov't, IMO. Trouble is: I only trust myself in that position, and haven't worked out a good succession plan yet.

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Kukri for King of the World!

I agree with the principle, but then so did Aristotle and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

No, I am. But the concept is the same. :)

A benevolent dictatorship is the most effective, efficient type of gov't, IMO. Trouble is: I only trust myself in that position, and haven't worked out a good succession plan yet.

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I would rather an ineffective Democracy to a benevolent Dictatorship. At least then I have the illusion of some sort of freedom.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

I would rather an ineffective Democracy to a benevolent Dictatorship. At least then I have the illusion of some sort of freedom.

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You can have freedom under a dictatorship, or at least under a monarchy, which is almost the same anyway if it's really benevolent.

It's not. Most European monarchs have little/no political power. They are monarchs of democratic countries.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

It's not. Most European monarchs have little/no political power. They are monarchs of democratic countries.

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Those aren't really monarchies precisely because the monarchs aren't in power.