Completing the Spartan Agoge

I have sometimes given the subject of Viking command some thought.

The Vikings had no writing, did they pass on military experience and knowledge or did they have to start from scratch every time a new warlord took over?

There is of course no answer, for nothing of the sort of a Viking "Art of War" has been passed on to us, and I expect there was none. But we still often see them using very complicated tactics and strategy and there are glimpses in some Sagas.

I surmise that every warlord (Earl, king, Magnate) would tell his son the basics and that they may even have trained some. But that all was orally passed on and only in the inner circle of leaders.

Can the Maks not have had something similar? Not all knowledge is passed in writing...

That's assuming that the Viking sucessor didn't go raiding or fighting other vikings and see commands in action. Then they probably fought under their warlord fathers, gradually getting more and more experience.

If you're wanting to compare it to Macedon, Alexander was first schooled, then fought with his father, witnessed battles and then got command of the Companions as a test of his abilities.

Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

Possibly why the Carthaginians hired Xanthippus in the first place for example.

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Or because it had dawned to them their army was rather out of shape and needed a suitably stern taskmaster to whip them back into fighting trim. Which AFAIK is exactly what X. did.

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Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Because it didn't only stay with whipping ofcourse, writing and reading were also part of it, as was psycical training, and athetic competitions. And I think their training in the Phalanx and their discipline made them wanted as officers/generals in non Spartan armies.

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At most that'd make them relatively skilled in infantry tactics (recalling the general problems the Spartans had regarding cavalry), and frankly from what I know of it phalanx drill wasn't a terribly central part of the curriculum (or in any case, meaningfully more so than among the ephebes of other poleis). The point was AFAIK more sheer physical and mental conditioning.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Or because it had dawned to them their army was rather out of shape and needed a suitably stern taskmaster to whip them back into fighting trim. Which AFAIK is exactly what X. did.

At most that'd make them relatively skilled in infantry tactics (recalling the general problems the Spartans had regarding cavalry), and frankly from what I know of it phalanx drill wasn't a terribly central part of the curriculum (or in any case, meaningfully more so than among the ephebes of other poleis). The point was AFAIK more sheer physical and mental conditioning.

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Also, but that is basically included in the harsh Agoge training, no? I wouldn't be able to think of anyone better than a Spartan Strategos for that job.

Maion

Exact. I mean, what were the Spartans *really* known for ? By Xanthippos' time definitely not any kind of invincibility - recalling the Thebans here - but stern discipline and whatnot, certainly. Who better to hire to drill your demoralised troops back into shape then ?

No, no invincibility for sure. And that's certainly one of the most important factors on which the Spartans based their strength on; the unwillingness of the enemy to face them head-on due to their fearsome reputation of invincibility. But that goes a bit away from the original discussion :tongue:

Maion

I modded my traits-file this way:

Barely completed Agoge: +1 influence, +1 morale, +1 HP
Completed Agoge: +2 influence, +2 morale, +2 HP
Excelled Agoge: +3 influence, +3 morale, +3 HP

So that even if your character is a lazy dumbass you gain some bonuses after so many years of training.
Maybe the HP bonuses are too much, but I feel that apart from RPG reasons, the vanilla bonuses are definitevely not worth the effort.

So, though the lazy dumbass still picks his nose in public while daydreaming, but at least he can take a beating. And maybe they beat some of the more stupid responses he utters out of him completely. So he's still dumb and lazy, but learned the hard way that shutting up once in a while is a good idea.:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: Now, if only I could learn this. :laugh4::laugh4:

When I made the comment about the training in this period not being all that, I just meant that during the EB period, most Hellenistic armies were getting better at soldierly discipline than they had been in the 5th and 6th century BC, so that, perhaps the 'modern' Spartan training didn't cover as large of a gap as it did during Sparta's heyday. No disrespect was intended, the men that completed that training would still be very good soldiers, hence the HP bonus due to the extreme physical conditioning. I just don't know if the Agoge excelled at teaching 'modern' combined arms strategies and tactics, as the Spartans were a very conservative society.

* by 'modern' I mean what would be considered modern in the 3rd century BC.

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Originally Posted by Aper

I modded my traits-file this way:

Barely completed Agoge: +1 influence, +1 morale, +1 HP
Completed Agoge: +2 influence, +2 morale, +2 HP
Excelled Agoge: +3 influence, +3 morale, +3 HP

So that even if your character is a lazy dumbass you gain some bonuses after so many years of training.
Maybe the HP bonuses are too much, but I feel that apart from RPG reasons, the vanilla bonuses are definitevely not worth the effort.

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In what file did you do that??

EDCT (export_descr_character_traits.txt)

Thanks! Is this all (?) and when i do this is it save compatible??

No, it's not save game compatible, sorry.