Why are the Ptolemaioi such a hated faction?

I think the Ptolemaioi are real fun to play with and a nice addition of units. I see it hard to hate a faction in any way perhaps dislike playing with some factions since people have diffrent styles. Perhaps a harsh word but if anyone seriously hate a faction in a computer game perhaps a break from the game is needed.

I love the Ptolemies. They're easy to play because Ptolemy Soter was a freakin' genius. People who think they or their units are boring can go back to Vanilla. All I can think of when someone calls the Ptolemies boring is a frat boy shouting, "BUT THEY DON'T HAVE PHAROAH'S BOWMEN ANYMORE, BRO. I MIGHT AS WELL BE THE GREEKS IF THE EGYPT ISN'T GONNA HAVE GOOD UNITS." In conclusion, incest is awesome. :laugh4:

Who hates them?
I love them watching they kick ass of AS while I kick AS from east.
I love them sending me lots of elite full stacks so as to make my game interesting after I send AS to the ashes of history,
I love them so much when I am playing on the western part of the map whose right sight shining like gold so use sunglasses :cool4:

I love them cursing a spell on my army that was paralyzed in the tile of death booooohhh :laugh4:
I love them so much if I need money they have lots of treasures so I can sack egypt whenever I need money they rebuild it easily :yes:

- --- - -- - -

who says their units sucks, you need see an optician:dizzy2:.
BTW Ptolemaoi was not for play just to save player going bankrupt thanks to huge gains of sacking campaigns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raygereio

Honestly though, if your criteria for hating a faction is that the AI will form a superpower 9 out 10 times, then why not hate the Sweboz of the Lusotanna too?

---

The Sweboz' infamous southern expansion was effectively nerfed by the scripted defenders. The Lusotana take a while to seize Hispania. The Ptollies seize control of most of the AS plus Aigyptos. Which seems the strongest?

I've just removed most of the gay references. Please drop the subject and go back to discussing the vices of the Ptolemeans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satalexton

come to think of it why don't we just modify the script to give the AS a special 'anti yellow-plague' financial boost?

---

Unfortunately, that way you end up with the Grey death. The two should be closely matched, but balancing them is hard since you need to play dozens of campaigns to see if one consistently beats the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

Yes or other option will be a kingdom of Judia? No?

---

Which will be quickly swallowed by either. Not to mention that it is extremely ahistorical, as Judea was at this point firmly under Ptolemean control, and even when independent wasn't remotely capable of expansionist action.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kevin

Iudaios? What's that?

---

Judea, one of the tribes of Israel.

Just to be fair: pre EB 1.0, the Yellow Death played no role at all, everybody was afraid of the Grey Death instead. :smash: :skull:

And I must add that EB 1.2 is the best balanced EB of all times. :2thumbsup: Sweboz east expansion, Roman north expansion, Karthadast sand wars, KH eating up father Makedonia, Baktria overrunning the steppe - all this has been successfully adressed. What remains is just the Yellow / Grey balance and Hayasdans conquering the Sarmatians.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Just to be fair: pre EB 1.0, the Yellow Death played no role at all, everybody was afraid of the Grey Death instead. :smash: :skull:

And I must add that EB 1.2 is the best balanced EB of all times. :2thumbsup: Sweboz east expansion, Roman north expansion, Karthadast sand wars, KH eating up father Makedonia, Baktria overrunning the steppe - all this has been successfully adressed. What remains is just the Yellow / Grey balance and Hayasdans conquering the Sarmatians.

---

Yeah, Hayasdan AI likes to "roleplay" steppe factions instead of going south.

No reason to hate Ptolemaoi now. In 1.2 the AS usually beats them and destroys everything in Asia except may be some Saka or Bactria cities on the far east.

P.S. As was rightly mentioned, Hayasdan are always chasing ghosts in the steppes instead of making things more interesting for the AS and friends.

i like them and play them. i mean which successor has not elite (son not that expensive) heavy sword infantry???
only annoying thing are their "special" units such as machimoi or the klerouchon agema who have a small AoR.


BTW: why cant i recruit hetairoi in antiocheia?
EDIT:according to recruitment viewer i should be able to

EDIT2: thx, i now found out that i just had luck and conquered seleukeia with an lvl5MIC, so thats why i can recruit those guys there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenosseGeneral

i like them and play them. i mean which successor has not elite (son not that expensive) heavy sword infantry???
only annoying thing are their "special" units such as machimoi or the klerouchon agema who have a small AoR.


BTW: why cant i recruit hetairoi in antiocheia?
EDIT:according to recruitment viewer i should be able to

---

Hetairoi need a lvl5 factional MIC, but you can only build it with a lvl1 gov.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fleaza

well its my opinion. im sure they wont actually mind. if they went around digging their nose into everyone who didnt respect them theyd get nothing done.

i find playing against them the most rewarding aspects to RTW. in every campaign near the mediterannian sea i ship my units over there to sack alexandria and memphis. to cripple them. conquering egypt is the most rewarding aspect to the game as well because its such a population booster. every 20 turns you conquer alexandria/memphis and enslave it. gives you around 20000 extra population which rocks. you can do the same to carthage but carthage isnt such a destructive blitzer as the ptolemies so you dont need to keep them in check.

btw the gay names thing was a joke.

oh and they have bad temples. none of their gods appeal to me. makedons have herakles and zeus. seleukids have seleukos himself! ptolemies have...serapis.

i admit that ptolemy himself was a brilliant successor. except for the fact that seleukos ruled the gretest amount of land, ptolemy was the most succesful diadoch.

---

I agree that they're seriously irritating a lot of the time, especially after they take all of Asia Minor and begin to expand into Europe. When you're playing the Getai, it's not a fun thing to face endless stacks of elite phalanxes with archers galore....

To a certain point, they aren't as exciting as other factions, but still, they're fun with the directions they can take and the limitless power one can really wield.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andronikos

I like deserts and desert people, but I don't consider Ptolemies desert people, Saba and Numidians are.

---

Sabaeans were most definately not desert people.

Ptolemaios I Soter was one of the best friends of Alexandros. There were a few people who deserved his empire after he died; I count Ptolemaios as being one of them.

I don't like them because of their annoying colour and their potential big expansion. I also hate them because i remember the vanilla RTW's pharaoh's ridicolous units. And their uberoverpowered superarchers <.<

Also, i don't like ancient egyptians for no reason U_U

for some reason, I still remember those archers killing every single i threw at them on the walls.......

....in fact, thats the only thing i remember about vanilla, other than the ninjas of barbaropolis....

Well, it looks like most are complaining about AS -ptolemaic wars......... maybe we should script AS - Ptolies defenders on gaza area (Script if both are AI controlled, each get reinforcements when another are the city holder) so they become stalled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Well, it looks like most are complaining about AS -ptolemaic wars......... maybe we should script AS - Ptolies defenders on gaza area (Script if both are AI controlled, each get reinforcements when another are the city holder) so they become stalled.

---

In fact, sometimes AS dominates the area but of course the dominant percentage belongs to Ptolemy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fleaza

their founder was a snivelling ratbag who stole alexanders corpse and brought it to egypt.

---

I have read that some historians claim, that Alexander wanted to be buried in Amonion in Siwa and it was Olympias who ordered his body to be transported to Makedonia.

Then Ptolemy had it nicked and buried it in Alexandria.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

Yes or other option will be a kingdom of Judia? No?

---

No.
Said kingdom is a road for bigger powers to travel through, in terms of significance for the period, it isn't justified...

I'll hear no arguments otherwise, as they are undoubtedly based in modern concerns...

I think it's because they would be the best possible ally in a campaign against IF diplomacy was better in RTW.

I really never play them because they are too easy.

The better balancing idea for the Ptolies would be raising the unrest levels everywhere in Egypt except the Delta region so that they would have to use more troops garrisoning, or restricting their recruitment refresh rate for elite Hellenistic units (I don't think it's possible in RTW), after all they could not field huge armies full of heavy Galatians and agema phalanxes, but that's to some extent true for any other Diadochi kingdom.

Kingdom of Judea is not an option, they were totally irrelevant on the political arena at that time, had no expansionist ambitions and were nothing more than a playground for big boys to play - first Egypt and Persia (or even Babylonia earlier), then Ptolies and the AS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius

The better balancing idea for the Ptolies would be raising the unrest levels everywhere in Egypt except the Delta region so that they would have to use more troops garrisoning

---

Considering that (iirc!) the Qarthadastim get increased unrest levels in Iberia, this could, and in my opinion, should be implemented to some degree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius

or restricting their recruitment refresh rate for elite Hellenistic units (I don't think it's possible in RTW)

---

Not possible with the R:TW engine, but...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius

after all they could not field huge armies full of heavy Galatians and agema phalanxes, but that's to some extent true for any other Diadochi kingdom.

---

... will be possible with the M2:TW engine, and will be a feature of EBII (for every faction).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius

Kingdom of Judea is not an option, they were totally irrelevant on the political arena at that time, had no expansionist ambitions and were nothing more than a playground for big boys to play - first Egypt and Persia (or even Babylonia earlier), then Ptolies and the AS.

---

I agree, the Judeans were not in a position to form a strong nation with expansionist goals - so, when Judea rebels, it should just rebel, imho, not form a one province nation only to be gobbled up by the larger powers the next turn (all the while using one of those very, very precious faction slots).

I think the Ptolemaioi have a excellent unit roster it's just very limited map wise so you have to ship units everywhere which gets to be a pain.

As for why they're so hated its definitely their AI behavior, nobody likes fighting those horrificly powerful empires they tend to produce. The AS used to be just as hated for the same reason in older EB versions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gabeed

I love the Ptolemies. They're easy to play because Ptolemy Soter was a freakin' genius. People who think they or their units are boring can go back to Vanilla. All I can think of when someone calls the Ptolemies boring is a frat boy shouting, "BUT THEY DON'T HAVE PHAROAH'S BOWMEN ANYMORE, BRO. I MIGHT AS WELL BE THE GREEKS IF THE EGYPT ISN'T GONNA HAVE GOOD UNITS." In conclusion, incest is awesome. :laugh4:

---

Gabeed, I distinctly remember you annihilating my roman army online with your evil, inbred killer army. Its 2am here, 7 months later and I am still too scared of having nightmares about your win for me to go to sleep.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere, maybe in EB text, that it is rumoured that Ptolemy Soter could have been an illegitimate older brother of Alexandros. An sources anyone can quote that can confirm what my coke addled brain is thinking?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blxz

I vaguely remember reading somewhere, maybe in EB text, that it is rumoured that Ptolemy Soter could have been an illegitimate older brother of Alexandros. An sources anyone can quote that can confirm what my coke addled brain is thinking?

---

It came up in the "Was Alexander poisoned?" thread, and I recall reading about it in some old historical fiction, so it's definitely an existing theory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The General

Personally I find them quite an interesting bunch of inbreds (think Habsburgs).

---

Yessssssssss.

Oh, and anyone who says that the Ptolemaioi suck, clearly underestimate how difficult it is to seize Egypt and Syria in what amounts to be a millitary coup. Also, considering they are responsible for allegedly one of the most beautiful women in history, I wouldn't say that's bad going. :yes:

Subotan, I recommend you take a look at coins from the time before you say she is one of the most beautiful women in history, from the coins we can see she was actually quite ugly by modern standards.

It's just that the Romans liked that sort of thing... *shudders*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mallios

Subotan, I recommend you take a look at coins from the time before you say she is one of the most beautiful women in history, from the coins we can see she was actually quite ugly by modern standards.

It's just that the Romans liked that sort of thing... *shudders*

---

She was a queen. That is enough for most men (or boys, in this case).

Kleopatra was very beautiful, as this ancient painting proves. Also you can see here that inbreeding already started to spread within the Galatian Klerouchoi, severly hempering Egypt's ability to withstand the Roman threat:

https://img37.imageshack.us/img37/16...opatracove.jpg