Rape by deception

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Simply put: that's retarded. That's an ethical issue, not a legal issue for starters. And secondly, it should be up to the woman to discern for herself whether, yes this guy's legit or no this guy is a lier who is trying to get in my pants. I mean when did Israel become a "leftie multi-culturalist nanny-state"?

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But Israel is a rightest, mono-culturalist... oh, I see what you did there.

Male rape cannot happen, it is not they can slip him a pill or anything for arousal.

But more seriously, if a guy says 'no' and the female is forceful and continues (etc). Even if he later ends up having sex with her because of the whole arousal, etc, if he made it absolutely clear he didn't want sex with her and made serious attempts to stop her, then she is punishable.

I believe there is even a film about this too.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Male rape cannot happen, it is not they can slip him a pill or anything for arousal

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Sorry if I seem dense but is this a joke or are you being serious?

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Originally Posted by Wishazu

Sorry if I seem dense but is this a joke or are you being serious?

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The clue was in the next line when I said "But more seriously...". :wink:

Yes, there is a pill named 'viagra' which is pretty common, to cause erections.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Male rape cannot happen, it is not they can slip him a pill or anything for arousal.

But more seriously, if a guy says 'no' and the female is forceful and continues (etc). Even if he later ends up having sex with her because of the whole arousal, etc, if he made it absolutely clear he didn't want sex with her and made serious attempts to stop her, then she is punishable.

I believe there is even a film about this too.

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You can tie him up and whip him (this actually happened, to a priest no less).

You are also assuming that raping a man involves that man penetrating the woman raping him.

Not so.

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Originally Posted by Skullheadhq

OT: Was there any event where a man was raped by a woman and he reported it to the police? Or does rape only apply to men?

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Most documented cases of female-male rape involve a female engaging a minor in intercourse, which constitutes as statutory rape; I'm sure you all remember the case in America a few years back about a young female teacher who had sex with one of her fourteen year old students... I think the child's parents found out through an instant messaging service and reported it to the police themselves, though.

I would guess that any instant where a non-statutory female-male rape occured would probably have less steep repercussions on the female perpetrator than if she had been a male... double standards, unfortunately; women just aren't seen as sex offenders for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

But more seriously, if a guy says 'no' and the female is forceful and continues (etc). Even if he later ends up having sex with her because of the whole arousal, etc, if he made it absolutely clear he didn't want sex with her and made serious attempts to stop her, then she is punishable.

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This reminds me of a classic episode of Peep Show. :3

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Originally Posted by Secura

This reminds me of a classic episode of Peep Show. :3

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv-V...has_verified=1


Male Rape is highly under-reported as common attitude is that people see it as a joke. Or even worse, that it is a gay crime. Aka, a woman cannot rape a man.

There is also the image that women are fragile weak creatures in society, when they really are not,

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Originally Posted by Secura

Most documented cases of female-male rape involve a female engaging a minor in intercourse, which constitutes as statutory rape; I'm sure you all remember the case in America a few years back about a young female teacher who had sex with one of her fourteen year old students... I think the child's parents found out through an instant messaging service and reported it to the police themselves, though.

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As in all things, Washington State leads the world.

Mary Kay Letourneau (age 35) got pregnant and had a child from a 13 year old student, was caught, jailed briefly, released, caught a year later with the same student, got pregnant again and had another child, jailed for several years, was released, and then married said student after he turned 21.

EDIT: With more info on the actual crime, from Louis' post #53, this punishment is not a fraction of what he deserves. Bring on Hayley Stark.

As to the topic - it's an appalling verdict that strikes me as racist.

CR

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

Some of you might be interested in reading what the Arab involved has to say.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ception-charge

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"I am paying the price for a mistake that she made,"

Sums it up quite nicely. He get's a bogus charge because she's angry that she disregarded her principles.

That's about as stupid as it can get. The judge is obviously a racist scumbag.

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"a Jewish woman who claimed she would not have had sex with him had she known he was an Arab."

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Imagine if this happened in the civilized world...

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" The message from the judge, he says, was that "because you are an Arab and you didn't make that clear, we are going to punish you".

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Oh, but I've the solution, what if arabs would just wear an obligatory yellow star or a red crescent moon on his shirt and coat, that way it would be easier to recognise and deport if necessary...

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"The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price – the sanctity of their bodies and souls."

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If that's a criminal, I'm a criminal. I'M SPARTACUS!

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He was interrogated for five to six hours, without a lawyer.

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Israel is the last hub of freedom in the middle-east! Really, you can trust us Jews...

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He says that in 16 years of teaching at a university where 20-25% of the student population is Arab, he has "never even heard of a mixed relationship". Discrimination against Arabs is, he says, evident at all levels.

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Actually I was reminded of Olga the hair stylist. :sweatdrop:

And after reading the article tibilicus linked I think even more that this is stupid and disgusting.
The perception of the woman, or what she claims to have perceived, cannot be the sole basis of a conviction for rape just because she made a decision based on her perception that she apparently regretted later.

Not to mention going merely on superficial attributes which women lambaste men for doing...

~:smoking:

I would have thought the more conservative people in Israel, that tend to be more religious and anti-Arab, would not take kindly to a woman having extra-marital relationships.

Man lies to get into woman's pants. Over here, we call this: "Saturday night".

Are Israeli Arabs generally circumcised? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by drone

Are Israeli Arabs generally circumcised? :inquisitive:

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Wait...She reported the incident right after it happened...so...while she was having sex she knew he was an Arab because else she couldn't have reported it...and yet she kept going?

So, the only thing I can conclude is that she knew it, kept going and then felt remorse so she thought she should "make it right" (possibly religious/social reasons) and she reported him.

Actually circumcision seems to be common among Arabs as well, so perhaps you should not jump to conclusions just because somebody asks a question...

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Actually circumcision seems to be common among Arabs as well, so perhaps you should not jump to conclusions just because somebody asks a question...

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Male circumcision is widely practiced within Arab communities. My father wanted me to get circumsised as well (my mother was against it, hah!) but my meningitis got in the way of that party.

It's been a while since we had a proper circumcision-debate....

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

It's been a while since we had a proper circumcision-debate....

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Unfortunately, they eventually just get locked...

I brought it up as a legitimate question, I don't know the cultural standard for Israeli Arabs and their male offspring's junk. I would think the vast majority of Israeli Jews would be cut, if she had sex with him and he was intact then she probably knew and just had buyer's remorse afterward.

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Unfortunately, they eventually just get locked...

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I'd rather say that all debate is...

*puts on sunglasses*

cut off.

uhh, both proper muslims and jews didn't tolerate sex outside marriage, and I must said, that women is allready suffered much social stigma in the coservative class.... now, it would be a joke if that women took off her Israeli citizenship and heading to US or western europe, where she could :daisy: with all she want....

ADD:
and uhh about the russian robbery-rape issue... I wonder if "Viktor" is actually a man who faithfully believe in abstience and no sex before marriage... that could him as lot as how a virgin was raped...

Well this case took a surprising turn...


The 'rape by deception'-charge was nothing but a plea bargain, just so this poor woman would not have to face this brutally violent sexual predator in court again.

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Fresh details have emerged in the case of a Palestinian man an Israeli court convicted of "rape by deception" after he was accused of posing as a Jewish man in order to have sex with a Jewish-Israeli woman.

The case caused international outrage when it was first reported, in July, but now an Israeli newspaper has reported that the conviction was the result of a plea bargain over a violent rape.
Ha'ir, a Tel Aviv weekly and part of the newspaper group that owns Haaretz, published extracts from the victim's unsealed testimony. It also reported that the prosecution had agreed to the reduced charge of "rape by deception" because of the victim's confused account and concern at facing another court appearance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Saber Kushour, from East Jerusalem, said he had had consexual sex with the woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, within minutes of meeting her on a West Jerusalem street.
He was sentenced to 18 months in prison after the Jerusalem district court ruled he was guilty of rape by deception. One of the judges said that, although the sex had been consensual, the woman involved "would not have consented if she had not believed Kushour was Jewish".


It was reported at the time that Kashur had been charged with rape and indecent assault but that those charges were reduced after a plea bargain arrangement.
This week, Ha'ir reported that, according to her testimony, the woman had met Kashur on a street in West Jerusalem and chatted with him for a few minutes before he invited her into a nearby building, claiming it was his workplace. Asked why she had agreed, she reportedly told the court: "I looked for someone to put my trust in."
Once inside the building, the woman says she was raped and then left naked and bleeding. Part of her testimony reads: "He said that if I don't stay silent and I don't resist, then it would like end faster and it wouldn't be like ... he wouldn't use force. I still resisted him, and it was forced."


The newspaper describes a women in her late 20s who had been abused by her father from an early age and forced by him to become a sex worker. She was living at a women's shelter when the incident occurred, and was subsequently taken to a psychiatric hospital with a section for female victims of sexual crimes.
The prosecution, it is claimed, agreed to the plea bargain that reduced the charge to rape by deception in order to prevent a long cross-examination of a traumatised victim. Ha'ir also reports that the woman had filed 14 previous complaints, mostly for sexual offences, some of which did not result in convictions owing to lack of evidence or because of questions around the veracity of the complaint. The prosecution was concerned that Kashur's legal team would question the women over all these cases in court.


Describing the reduced charge, deputy prosecutor Danny Wittman told Ha'ir: "Plea bargains never match the original narrative of the plaintiff, because the two sides have to bridge the gap between them and reach an agreement. In this case, we gave up on the 'forcible' element and agreed to a rewriting of the indictment, according to which the defendant had sex with the woman with her consent ... obtained with deception."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...on-plea-israel

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18 months in jail? This dangerous predator ought to be shot like a dog.

I never believed his cover story in the first place. Honest..

So the whole thing is a sad and sadly common plea-bargain for a violent rapist. It's good to know that "rape by deception" is not a new and growing class of crime, however.

Ah, good old Trial by Media.

~:smoking:

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18 months in jail? This dangerous predator ought to be shot like a dog.

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What have you got against dogs? :inquisitive:

Stanley knives and pliers spring to my mind. Much kinder on the dogs IMO.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424136/

Sluts....

I believe only the "deception" part is true, rape should be something else.

By the way both Arabs and Israelis (Moslem and Jews) are mostly circumcised.

At least it helps identifying victims or spies in battles :rolleyes: