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Originally Posted by Greyblades

...Man I miss John Paul II.

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JPII certainly had more redeeming qualities than God's Rottweiler Ratzinger. Even so, JPII was an old man, he slept while both the sexual abuse case and the cradle snatching scandal went on.
And that's the friendly take. The other story is that of JPII not sleeping at all, but remaining a grand strategist for whom the spread of Catholicism overrides any moral consideration.


For example:

https://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3663/jpmf.jpg

Here is JPII giving his blessing to Marcial Maciel, founder of Christ's Legionaries, during a special audience the pontiff granted, at the Vatican, in 2004.

Christ's Legionaries are a massive organisation. There are 1,000 Legion priests in 22 countries and over 2,500 seminarians. They run very traditional Catholic schools and charities with its lay movement, Regnum Christi, who has about 70,000 members (competing with Opus Dei 80,000 members). Marcial Maciel is also a prodigous fundraiser, collecting $650 million annually. Hence he was blessed by John Paul.

Marcial Maciel is also a drug addict, serial rapist, and the father of several children by at least two women. He even anally raped his own biological son. Naturally, one need have little illusion about the goings on in the global seminaries chain this serial rapist founded. A thousand priests, presented with tens of thousands of little boys on a silver platter, while pious or cretinous believers pay them $650 million dollar a year.

So much money, that John Paul - ever the practical pope - protected this man to the last, kept heaping praise and blessing upon him. Maciel remained a man whom John Paul much admired, despite his being perfectly aware of the 'sinful' side of this incestuous paedophile.

That's John Paul for you.

~~o~~o~~<<oOo>>~~o~~o~~

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You are talking bollox, Louis.

Surely the above can't be true?

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I am most serious. Here is the scathing portrait of this wicked man as presented by the National Catholic Reporter itself: NCR

Maciel secured scholarships for his seminarians in Spain from the Franco government. “We were like an army,
the army of Jesus Christ,” recalled Alejandro Espinosa, the author of a searing memoir, El
Legionario, a best-seller in Mexico.

By the 1950s Maciel had a seminary in Rome. Cultivating wealthy supporters, he also built Our
Lady of Guadalupe Basilica in Rome, honoring Mexico’s patron saint. But in 1956 Pope Pius XII
removed him as the Legion’s director when Maciel was hospitalized for morphine addiction.
Seminarians who had taken vows never to speak ill of Maciel defended him in a Vatican
investigation into his secret life. Says Juan Vaca, now a psychology professor in Long Island,
N.Y.: “I lied.” From age 12 to 24, Vaca, in what he termed a twisted psychosexual relationship
with Maciel, “loved the figure of the founder, the priest … not the predator.”

Another victim, Jose Barba, now a college professor in Mexico City said: “We all lied.” Barba
earned a doctorate in Latin American studies at Harvard after leaving the Legion in 1962. “I said
simply that he was a saint … as I had been taught.”

In the interregnum between Pius XII’s death and the election of Pope John XXIII, Cardinal
Clemente Micara, the vicar of Rome, re-instated Maciel, although under Vatican rules he lacked
the authority to do so.

Defended by his victims, Maciel had a protective wall in the secret vows the boys took never to
criticize any superior. A Legion mantra, “lost vocation, sure damnation” sent certain of his victims
into therapy in later life. The early victims reconnected with one another slowly, over many years.

One of the founding texts of the religious order this man founded in between anally raping his biological son, was the 1959 book El salterio de mis días. I tells the authobiographical story of the many persecutions this poor man has had to endure. The persecutions served as an inspiration to his Catholic followers everywhere.
However, in 2010 the Vatican in 2010 finally admitted what desperate Spanish had claimed all along. Namely, that the entire book was plagiarised from the posthumously published memoirs in 1956 of a Spanish politician. A politician who died in 1943, as a victim of persectuion by Franco and the church.

So not only did they murder this politician, they then stole his memoirs and presented his story of persecution as their own. This then became the holy book of an ultra-catholic order founded by a serial rapist, which made so much money the founding priest could continue anally raping his own son with the continued blessing and protection to the last by John Paul II.

The depravity of the Vatican is unlimited.

@ Louis

Do you see this as part of a Papal Conspiracy?

I am not a friend of The Church, or religion in general for that matter but I don’t see this issue as purely a church created problem.

I won’t say that pedophiles and the depraved have not put on a cloak to hide within the church and have some institutional protection.

But do you think that every Pope from 1939 until today has been working to further the aims of these people?

Sorry. Quite upset. Cannot reply at the present time.

Well, it's not exactly news to me.

Some years ago a fellow christian gave me some of these little booklets that is for non-christians to show them how evil the world is and help them accept Jesus as their saviour.
One of them said that there were two catholic cloisters, one for nuns, one for monks, between them a secret underground tunnel was found which contained the dead bodies of many babies.
I haven't verified the story back then and have neither any recollection of the details nor the booklet anymore, but perhaps someone else knows more about this?

My parents have also raised me with great suspicion towards the catholic church and especially the vatican (not so much towards the common believer), my dad firmly believes that the 30-day-pope or what he's called was killed by the vatican because he didn't exactly share their ideals as they have been brought up in this thread.

And then there's a host of problems most evangelical christians and protestants see with the whole saint worship etc., without wanting to troll anyone but the belief is that the devil would want people to worship anyone other than God with the goal to lure people away from God.
I haven't put a lot of energy into researching and verifying these things but the catholic church is an institution I wouldn't miss at all I must say.
There are indeed some individuals that have done a lot of good in the name of the Catholic Church but IMO they were good people who had no idea about the atrocities their organization committed at the higher levels and it doesn't excuse the behaviour of the leadership either. :shrug:

How 1 billion people still follow such a corrupt and moraly bankrupt organazation is beyond my chomprehension.

If this was any other government or company (perhaps mafia is a more apt term) there would be riots in the streets and a shake up at the top.

Instead all we get is a bunch of half hearted aplogies from old men who make a living off of little old ladies. Clearly not concerend with how they will be judged, I guess when you are a man of the cloth you are beyond reproach

Worshipping saints is idolatry, and is pretty clearly a no-no.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Worshipping saints is idolatry, and is pretty clearly a no-no.

~:smoking:

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Being a non-believer, do you actually care about that stuff in the slightest?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Being a non-believer, do you actually care about that stuff in the slightest?

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Sort of. If people can believe this, it opens the floodgates for other insane things that might affect me. Kissing old pictures might not be a problem, hacking me to death because I don't would be.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Sort of. If people can believe this, it opens the floodgates for other insane things that might affect me. Kissing old pictures might not be a problem, hacking me to death because I don't would be.

~:smoking:

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So telling a billion people they are idolaters is the safe way out?

:laugh4:


no, nobody’s been hacked to death for anything like that before have they?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

no, nobody’s been hacked to death for anything like that before have they?:confused:

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Is this supposed to be sarcastic? People have in droves.

~:smoking:

yes

In fairness, you're more likely to face reprisals for kissing an icon by an angry Proddy than you are by a Catholic for not kissing one. Cos we Proddies are crazy!