Keira Knightley

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Well give us an example of a woman you do find attractive...

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Pocahontas.

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Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

Pocahontas.

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Do you mean the fat little child of history, or the animated fantasy of Disney?

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Do you mean the fat little child of history, or the animated fantasy of Disney?

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Perhaps you should clarify what you mean by "fat little child of history"? Would it not have been sufficient to say "the historical figure"?

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Originally Posted by Jaguara

Perhaps you should clarify what you mean by "fat little child of history"? Would it not have been sufficient to say "the historical figure"?

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Pardon me, but I am stressing why I find it hard to believe that he does or should find the real Pocahontas attractive. When she first met John Smith, she was a minor (why he shouldn't) and she was also, if I remember correctly, overweight (which is why I doubt he would).
When she grew into an adult woman we have no record of what she looked like until she moved to England at the age of 21 (shortly before she died) and had one portrait painted.
http://pocahontas.morenus.org/images/poca.jpg
She looks as if she is still on the pudgy side, and the picture is too stylized to tell if she is really attractive or not.
My point is that I think Megas is basing what he said on seeing an animated Disney film.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Pardon me, but I am stressing why I find it hard to believe that he does or should find the real Pocahontas attractive. When she first met John Smith, she was a minor (why he shouldn't) and she was also, if I remember correctly, overweight (which is why I doubt he would).
When she grew into an adult woman we have no record of what she looked like until she moved to England at the age of 21 (shortly before she died) and had one portrait painted.
She looks as if she is still on the pudgy side, and the picture is too stylized to tell if she is really attractive or not.
My point is that I think Megas is basing what he said on seeing an animated Disney film.

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It just could have been construed differently. As you point out there is very little to establish what she might have looked like, other than 3-4 paintings, all of which are questionable at best and painted in the style of the time (IMHO all paintings at that time look ugly, and their standard for "pudgy" is quite different than the modern one). All of this make your own assertions about her possible appearance just as questionable. I have not heard the assertion that she was "fat" and was likely only "little" by certain English standards.

Here is a quote from John Smith's first encounter with her in 1608:

"Powhatan understanding we detaine certaine Salvages, sent his Daughter, a child of tenne years old: which, not only for feature, countenance, and proportion, much exceedeth any of the rest of his people: but for wit and spirit, the only Nonpareil of his Country."

It certainly seems to imply that she was quite beautiful, at least in his eyes.


Now regarding Megas:
That said, you are certainly correct in saying that it certainly is not by a stylized painitng or by an old vague description that one could say that she would represent his idea of a perfect woman...

I think his point was only to say that he likes native women...and thus Pocahontas as a symbol, as opposed to a particular person. But I could be wrong, that was just my interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Jaguara

I think his point was only to say that he likes native women...and thus Pocahontas as a symbol, as opposed to a particular person. But I could be wrong, that was just my interpretation.

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That is my point.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

My point is that I think Megas is basing what he said on seeing an animated Disney film.

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My guess would be that he only based it on her being a native american and him being one, too.

As such I actually found his comment quite funny.

Wait Pocahontas was real?! :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Jaguara

It just could have been construed differently. As you point out there is very little to establish what she might have looked like, other than 3-4 paintings, all of which are questionable at best and painted in the style of the time (IMHO all paintings at that time look ugly, and their standard for "pudgy" is quite different than the modern one). All of this make your own assertions about her possible appearance just as questionable. I have not heard the assertion that she was "fat" and was likely only "little" by certain English standards.

Here is a quote from John Smith's first encounter with her in 1608:

"Powhatan understanding we detaine certaine Salvages, sent his Daughter, a child of tenne years old: which, not only for feature, countenance, and proportion, much exceedeth any of the rest of his people: but for wit and spirit, the only Nonpareil of his Country."

It certainly seems to imply that she was quite beautiful, at least in his eyes.


Now regarding Megas:
That said, you are certainly correct in saying that it certainly is not by a stylized painitng or by an old vague description that one could say that she would represent his idea of a perfect woman...

I think his point was only to say that he likes native women...and thus Pocahontas as a symbol, as opposed to a particular person. But I could be wrong, that was just my interpretation.

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in short, i summarize, after having neither read the quote or the quoted quote, they liked fat people in that time, fat people are beautiful and fat people need loving too!