Old people complain.....

The elderly complain because the young are often swayed by fantastic liars-- Better to choose the devil you know than the devil you don't.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

The middle class... people who make enough to live comfortably, but not enough to spend lavishly. They do, though.

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And the middle class consumer consumption is one big driving force in the US economy. That makes an interesting combination doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by Ironside

And the middle class consumer consumption is one big driving force in the US economy. That makes an interesting combination doesn't it?

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not really because these are people who overstretch themselves and cause the economy more problems in the long run and it is not like they are buying more essentials. They are purchasing luxury goods like louis vuitton purses, mercedes, and othe rnon essentials. these goods do not drive any economy in the way essential items do. Expensive vacations to Strike and MRD's wet dream of a branson vacation (lol at expensive branson vacations) do not really drive the economy. Those people having enough cash to actually purchase homes within their budgets and food fort he tables and cars within their means are what drive the american economy.

Do the sale and purchase of these luxury goods aid a capitalist market driven economy well hell yes they do. But the economy is hurt when people irresponsibly buy these goods and cannot own them without stepping outside their means. And at the end of the day a luxury good is just that a luxury. Their impact on the economy as a whole is negligible compared to sometihng like oil or corn or lumber.

For example, I "own" three house servants Indonesia, and really I should have no more than one.

I think you guys are forgetting to place the proper blame on banks. The mortgage bubble was only partly because of idiotic borrowers, the majority of it was con artists getting FHA loans for investment properties they never intended to live in, and banks not doing their legally required duty of verifying income, residency and general application accuracy. Banks make money off of foreclosures, despite what they say.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Unfortunately, you are most likely far more responsible than the average American. Our government has made these commitments, and millions of young to middle aged people are taking expensive vacations and buying BMWs with the implicit understanding that they'll have an income stream and virtually free healthcare when they retire.

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Those people I feel no pity for. It's being pretty clearly broadcast to everyone these days that you shouldn't rely on the government to take care of you later in life. If someone ignores those warnings, they will reap what they sow. The same can't be said for the current retirees though. People who are 70+ grew up being told that the system was specifically designed so that they would be able to retire with a livable income and basic medical care. I have difficulty blaming those people for not saving more money, as they were told they did not have to.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Yes, I'm sure you've contributed far more to the Social Security fund than an 80-year-old retiree. :rolleyes:

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And who is paying to keep Social Security alive today? I don't think it's those 80 year old people in nursing homes who crap themselves. :no:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Yes, good heavens that we actually have to care about each other. On the other hand, the old people of today tried their best to dismantle every social benefit in the world when they were in power during the me-me-me-eighties, so I don't really care about them that much. They had their choice, and they choose instant pleasure over long term gain. Screw 'em, I say.

But what is worse is of course that they can't keep their gnarled old hands from meddling with everything. A lot of them, if not most, have a firm belief that the past was a perfect paradise, and every change made to the world is inherently bad. Old people cannot stand to see young people express themselves freely in ways they did not do themselves, and to me that is sickening.

I do not see any reason whatsoever to care about social commentary from the elderly.

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:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Rhyfylwyr

Well if you want to ignore the fact that the today's elderly that are most dependent on welfare come from those segments of society that really opposed (and suffered at the hands of) the economic revolution in the 80's...

All the elderly people I know, including those in my family, would have died before they voted for Thatcher. But hey there's some angry kid on the internet thats upset because old people aren't cool so I guess they don't deserve a decent quality of life...

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Thatcher wasn't that bad :laugh4:. I never said they wasn't. I'm just saying. It is there problem that they didn't save up enough for retirement, and trust me, a lot of them had the money and blew it (Trust me, my grandfather on the mother's side died in 2009 at 91 and 88 year old grandmother is still kicking, they told me how the old geezers always had money but yet they always failed to save.....)



Spend now and pay later. Don't be such a fricking liberal.

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

It is there problem

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Where is the problem?

/grammarnazi

Another thing to factor in, is of course, people are living longer; but retiring at roughly the same age as they were when they were dying much younger- 20+ years worth of retirement is IMHO a little excessive, so there is a longer average draw on people who want to depend on SS. We were all sent to school when we were five years old, and of course our society expects us to start paying into Social Security by at most our early thirties--Then as long as the average person takes decent care of himself he should have at least forty years worth of time to save (I won't get into 401ks, and pensions, another beast entirely)-- of course there are other socio-economic factors included as well, such as American's insistence that the elderly need to take care of themselves-- which of course is an impossibility, so the responsibility get's bucked onto the federal government, and then same people who don't want to help their own parents/grand parents bitch that someone else has too; which of course the people who actually take care of the elderly/disabled aren't going to do it pro bono, because it may be one of the worst jobs in the world; but short of that the only other reasonable thing to do would be the euthanize your grandparents once they are unable to care for themselves--

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

but short of that the only other reasonable thing to do would be the euthanize your grandparents once they are unable to care for themselves--

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Just cut off the Medicare, kill two birds with one stone...
:hide:

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

And who is paying to keep Social Security alive today? I don't think it's those 80 year old people in nursing homes who crap themselves. :no:

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So, your basic point is that they don't deserve Social Security benefits because they're retired? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

So, your basic point is that they don't deserve Social Security benefits because they're retired? :inquisitive:

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I don't want to be paying for other people's retirement. :dizzy2: :stare::inquisitive::inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

I don't want to be paying for other people's retirement. :dizzy2: :stare::inquisitive::inquisitive:

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So?

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

I don't want to be paying for other people's retirement. :dizzy2: :stare::inquisitive::inquisitive:

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From Gen X down to whatever they call the kids these days, this was always going to be your fate. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

I don't want to be paying for other people's retirement. :dizzy2: :stare::inquisitive::inquisitive:

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So, you think the Social Security system was completely wrong and never should have been created in the first place? Do you dislike all collective wealth distribution systems where some individuals take out more money than they put in?

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

I don't want to be paying for other people's retirement. :dizzy2: :stare::inquisitive::inquisitive:

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Others paid for your first fifteen or twenty years on this earth. They should have spanked you more often, that's for sure.

AII

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Who exactly is doing this?

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Um, I bought a BMW... :creep: In my defense, it was slightly used and my parents gave me the money...

Warman do you even hold gainful employement?

Every week FICA takes less out of my check than work does for insurance and my 401k

You'll live sweetie

FICA is typically around 40% of what your federal is.

If you make less than 40k per year it is less per paycheck than a night at a bar.

For a person who makes the median single person income, it is far less than 1k per year.

For the median household income (usually two earners - 45k) it is less than 1500 per year. The sting really starts to take effect when you get into the 60k and up brackets, and you are shelling out @3k+ per year, or if you are married and your joing income is over 80k.

On average as a civilian, I pay @ $350 per month. On deployed status is in the neighborhood of $220. Believe me, I would rather not pay, but what options are left short of putting old folks out on the streets?

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Originally Posted by n0rg3 Roink

Um, I bought a BMW... :creep: In my defense, it was slightly used and my parents gave me the money...

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My first car was an Audi, and my dad gave it to me.





Though it was an 86-model, and I got it because I bumped it in a tree during practice driving.....

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

And who is paying to keep Social Security alive today? I don't think it's those 80 year old people in nursing homes who crap themselves. :no:

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If the .Org still exists in 2060 and we're both still alive, then I'm so going to quote this post and throw it in your face so that you can reply to it while the nurses are wiping you clean.

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Originally Posted by ELITEOFKINGWARMAN88

I don't want to be paying for other people's retirement. :dizzy2: :stare::inquisitive::inquisitive:

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Please propose a viable alternative.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

My first car was an Audi, and my dad gave it to me.





Though it was an 86-model, and I got it because I bumped it in a tree during practice driving.....

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Nice, Audi was my first choice, but I was a bit under for a new A4 and there weren't any good used deals like there were for BMWs.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Those people I feel no pity for. It's being pretty clearly broadcast to everyone these days that you shouldn't rely on the government to take care of you later in life. If someone ignores those warnings, they will reap what they sow. The same can't be said for the current retirees though. People who are 70+ grew up being told that the system was specifically designed so that they would be able to retire with a livable income and basic medical care. I have difficulty blaming those people for not saving more money, as they were told they did not have to.

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They also grew up with the assumption that most of them would be dead before 65, and hardly any would see 80. Funding them to the level they grew up with would be very cheap - hardly any drugs whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Please propose a viable alternative.

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A much more staggered system where many expensive options are not covered whatsoever. Life long or live the highlife. But most people can't have both. The phrase "life is cheap" is wrong. Death is cheap. Life is very expensive.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Andres

If the .Org still exists in 2060 and we're both still alive, then I'm so going to quote this post and throw it in your face so that you can reply to it while the nurses are wiping you clean.

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I'm going to take you up on that.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Please propose a viable alternative.

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Pay for your own retirement? :idea2:

I believe I saw a very similiar thread in the backroom some months ago. Not sure through. But yes, not all pensioners are responsible for electing Thatcher-like politicians in office during the eigthies. Blaming entire generations, which happens in Germany with the WWII-generation as well, is utterly stupid.

Final salaries did appear very recently and were instigated by a certain generation. They were not being paid for by that generation, as it was found that they're too expensive and so are being scrapped. Now, a different generation are paying for it.

~:smoking:

I'm not certain how it works in the States but I do know how it works in the UK.

When the welfare state was set up after WWII it was decided to fund pensions and the NHS through a type of taxation called National Insurance. This amounts to around 5-6% of your gross earnings. That is on top of any general taxation levied. This was not voluntary. It was compulsory.

Naive as I was at 16 when I started work, I assumed that this 5-6% was put in a pot towards my retirement pension and any medical care I might require. Of course that was complete rubbish. The money I paid back in '76 was not going to pay for me at all. It was being spent in 1976 to pay for the pensioners then.

The dishonest politicians who set up this scheme should have been locked up. Well they did with Bernie Madoff and it was exactly the same. Bread today or Jam tomorrow. Plus ca change.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

My first car was an Audi, and my dad gave it to me..

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I hope you stuck to your principles and let any one in the area drive it anytime they wanted. :wink:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

I'm not certain how it works in the States but I do know how it works in the UK.

When the welfare state was set up after WWII it was decided to fund pensions and the NHS through a type of taxation called National Insurance. This amounts to around 5-6% of your gross earnings. That is on top of any general taxation levied. This was not voluntary. It was compulsory.

Naive as I was at 16 when I started work, I assumed that this 5-6% was put in a pot towards my retirement pension and any medical care I might require. Of course that was complete rubbish. The money I paid back in '76 was not going to pay for me at all. It was being spent in 1976 to pay for the pensioners then.

The dishonest politicians who set up this scheme should have been locked up. Well they did with Bernie Madoff and it was exactly the same. Bread today or Jam tomorrow. Plus ca change.

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At least they're honest with us now. NI is merely another tax. Period. Pensions will shrink as they become increasingly impossible to pay. I do not view a long term future in the UK as frankly the bits I like I can visit and by not being here I can avoid paying for the mistakes of others.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Naive as I was at 16 when I started work, I assumed that this 5-6% was put in a pot towards my retirement pension and any medical care I might require. Of course that was complete rubbish. The money I paid back in '76 was not going to pay for me at all. It was being spent in 1976 to pay for the pensioners then.

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But why did you assume so in the first place?