LA BELLE EPOQUE (a sequel to the CONCERT OF EUROPE)

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

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Indeed? Well we were in the impression that Egypt and the ottomans were separate entities until about a week ago, an impression your predecessor gave.

Well, if you want to come to an agreement for the true ownership of disputed resources it seems to be a good time to take into account the assets you owe us.
Britain is going to want those ships, rifles and Cannons back, with this new peace treaty the terms of their lend lease have expired, also there's the costs of all the gunpowder and shot that we've given you that cant be recovered for obvious reasons, and the expenses for all the ships we deployed to defend the shipping in the east med, mostly your shipping if I'm not mistaken. The amount of fortification and development that has been applied already to the Suez we obviously want paying for, there not being any real way to repossess effort or architecture, plus the expenses the Suez garrison accumulated maintaining order to the Suez and Damietta.

The cost upon final count amount to about 50 million pounds, to be paid upfront, no credit.

Oh, and the amount paid for the use of the Suez we will want repaid, seeing as the people who received the funds were apparently under your jurisdiction it is up to you to refund us the 45 million. You could try to take it back from the Egyptians, though after two wars the amount that is likely to have been spent by the time you regain control of their coffers.

We expect the 50 million at the end of the year (in game) and 45 if/when you win your war.

Or you could allow our possession of the Suez to continue, you keep our lent weaponry+ ships, we can allow your debts be forgotten and we will allow you to take in credit the parts of the 45 million you do not reclaim from the Egyptians, plus the 25% of the travel fees to be collected from the upcoming Suez canal. assuming you do win.

The Kaiser is pleased with the triumph of the arms of the princes of Europe, and wishes to commemorate the german blood spilled to achieve such a momentous outcome.

- Minister of Foreign Affairs

Joseph von Radowitz is, from now on, Minister of Foreign affairs, and plenipotentiary negotiator towards the German Confederation. May his service aid all the Germans. Alexander von Schleinitz is ambassador to the courts of Bavaria, Baden, Hesse, and Frankfurt.

- Wilhelm IV

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Gonna have to explain the smilie there.

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I do not want to get involved into this discussion. I just thought that this applause about the peace treaty is a bit to hasty. I haven't heard anything from Egypt and France, which seem to be major participants in this war. And there seem to be some issues undiscussed, like the status of Cyprus, the French claims at Levante, the British claims at the Suez.

Besides this I am taken by surprise that the British announce that they supported the Ottoman so massively. Had't they agreed not to sopprt them?

I am looking forward to see how this will go.

Dude, shh. :P


Either way, I said I wouldn't support them I didn't say I wouldn't rent out British guns and ships on credit to be paid back when they were in the position to pay it/when I felt like demanding it.
Giving it for free is support, renting it for later payment is merely a business transaction.

Edit: Wait a minute, french claims at levante? That means the french were attacking the egyptians not as a part of the ottoman war effort but as their own war?

Well, I always had difficulties to understand the finesse of British diplomacy.

French invaded the Levant to support his allies and to free the Arabians from Ottoman slavery. :2thumbsup:

how do we figure out what all kinds of stuff costs? or how long it takes to travel from place a to b by means of c?

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Well, I always had difficulties to understand the finesse of British diplomacy.

French invaded the Levant to support his allies and to free the Arabians from Ottoman slavery. :2thumbsup:

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Interesting, that means that France either changed the agreed war goals of the alliance to include the Levant, which wasnt covered on their side of the agreement we made and making me not obligated to not interfere with that part of the conflict, or France started their own little war which my agreement of non involvement does not apply and I have no obligation to stay out of it. Either way it makes the diplomatic gymnastics I had to do, to keep the french from sinking what was left of the cotton trade without taking a side, pointless too.

Thank you, you've been a help.

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

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The British don't own the Suez area. It's a lease.

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

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It is as far as I know.

I'll give a IC speech corcerning my views on certain points later today.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

The British don't own the Suez area. It's a lease.

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Honestly bought and paid for, with expectations of paying for it's renewal in 100 years.

so its a lease with a long term...

like Hong Kong?

Hong Kong was not leased it was taken from us after the most unjust war ever fought by a strong nation against a weaker one.

Actually the island of lanatu, part of hong kong, was leased for 99 years
Franconius: Kinda, though I doubt that I'd let it go without at least attempts on a new lease, assuming by some miracle we reach the 1940's.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Honestly bought and paid for, with expectations of paying for it's renewal in 100 years.

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I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Actually the island of lanatu, part of hong kong, was leased for 99 years
Franconius: Kinda, though I doubt that I'd let it go without at least attempts on a new lease, assuming by some miracle we reach the 1940's.

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ooc: you dont have that yet, that arrangement wasnt made untill 50 years into the future.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

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OOC: I believe you are right with that one.
Edit: yep, 50. Was tempted to just take it at gunpoint at that price, but you know, that would have been helping France. :P

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

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I'm here, just trying to process all the information.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

I'm here, just trying to process all the information.

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I was waiting for a first IC statement from you before I made mine.

P.S. @Franconicus I would still like a public confirmations that Crete is Egytian.

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Originally Posted by Historical Timeline

In 1840, Egypt was forced by Palmerston to return Crete to direct Ottoman rule.

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Originally Posted by Concert of Europe's Timeline, 1842-1843

Egypt has entered the war with 25,000 men and are fighting the Turks. No major battle yet in 1843 but Turks are figuring out what to do.

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Originally Posted by Concert of Europe's Timeline, 1843

The Ottoman Sultan and Mohammed Ali of Egypt, while the Concert were discussing the future in Frankfurt, signed a peace Treaty in February

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Crete it's not egyptian.

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Crete it's not egyptian.

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While it might not be Egyptian officially it is occupied by Egyptian forces that removed the french ones a turn or two ago.

I fear Arjos is right, although the situation is a bit confusing. Crete belongs to the sultan, but I assume that the complete Egyptian fleet is there. Do not know who has claims on Cyprus (beside Greece and France), but it is definetly occupied by Egyptian soldiers.

Egypt anyway has to follow the peace treaty or it is violating his dutys as vassal.

Is the french ban of luxury imports still going on?

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Originally Posted by Kival

Egypt anyway has to follow the peace treaty or it is violating his dutys as vassal.

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I'm not entirely sure I'm still a vassal in the strict sense of the word. Mohamed Ali did agree to support the Ottoman Empire but I don't think he was bound by anything more than his word. Beside I, as his son Ibrahim Ali, am not bound by my fathers promises.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Is the french ban of luxury imports still going on?

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There has never been a ban on any kind of imports, just a general tax on the consume of any luxary good (imported or home produced). This was cancelled after one year because of a problems in the administration and replaced by a simple tax on land.
So as long as Napoleon does not change a thing, England can export as many luxaries as it likes.

Peasant Phill is right.The relationship between Ottoman Empire and Egypt is very complex. Titular, he is a vasall of the the Porte. Both sides were at war some years ago. Between the Sultan and his father there had been an agreement, that Mohamed Ali (not the boxer!) would get Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. Together with Egypt, these countries should be heritable. In return, Mohamed Ali promised to send troops to the defence of the Ottoman Empire.
Now some pre-conditions changed. First, Mohammed Ali is gone. Second, the war of the Ottomans against the Christians is over, though there are still French troops at Egypt. So there are several issues to solve:
1) Does the Sultan accept Ibrahim Pasha as heir of Egypt?
2) Does he also keep to the treaty and accept him as ruler over the Levant?
3) Does he accept that Mohammed Ali sold (or leased) land to the English?
4) Does Ibrahim feel tied to the treaty with the English at all?
5) Does anyone of both have the militaty power to defend their claims?
6) Would the Sultan support Egypt, if the war between Egypt and France would continue)

Another unclear point is the support of the English for Egypt and Ottoman. Greyblades sent me some info regarding Egypt, which I forwarded, but I only know that England sent weapons to the Sultan before the agreement of the Concert. What happened afterwards and which was the price for the help - I do not know.


Another open issue is the relationship between Egypt and China. Where do we start from. Before or after the first opium war? Maybe Greybaldes and the Stranger can discuss this.

i dont understand what you mean exactly, what special relationship do i have with egypt that it needs to be discussed? also i thought the year was 1847, that is 5 years after the first opium war, and i thought this was long passed and resolved? or am i understanding your question wrong?

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

i dont understand what you mean exactly, what special relationship do i have with egypt that it needs to be discussed? also i thought the year was 1847, that is 5 years after the first opium war, and i thought this was long passed and resolved? or am i understanding your question wrong?

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I believe Franc meant England instead of Egypt.
Though we can still be BFF's if you want.:on_wink:

hehe clearly i prefer before :D there is no way that under my sound leadership China wouldve gotten into this debacle in the first place!

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

I believe Franc meant England instead of Egypt.
Though we can still be BFF's if you want.:on_wink:

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ofcourse, you bring the shisha for tea today? I have some nice tobacco! we could also invite Greybaldes, maybe he can bring some opium...

Go on making chokes at my cost!
:sweatdrop: :whip: