What's the Matter with Kansas: Religious Freedom versus Discrimination

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Freedom of religion, church is against homosexuality. There is no such thing as freedom of discrimination of races.

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So... "My church" is also against other religions. Shouldn't I have the freedom of religion to ban other religions(say, members of the Jewish faith) along with gays from my bratwürst-shop?

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

In fact they are even less secure than Christians because they are too afraid to even go outside and talk about their lack of faith, instead they just brood in online forums.

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There's no reason to talk about stuff I don't believe in. I will say it when it's appropriate but otherwise won't talk about it. I also don't believe in reincarnation, Zeus and that spirits of my ancestors are watching me (perverted voyers they may be). I'm certainly not gonna go out and look for support groups to talk about it.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So... "My church" is also against other religions. Shouldn't I have the freedom of religion to ban other religions(say, members of the Jewish faith) along with gays from my bratwürst-shop?

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But that isn't the case here. No I think you wouldn't, I'll have to think about how I can make that make sense.

Just for the record, I find not serving gays idiotic.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

There's no reason to talk about stuff I don't believe in. I will say it when it's appropriate but otherwise won't talk about it. I also don't believe in reincarnation, Zeus and that spirits of my ancestors are watching me (perverted voyers they may be). I'm certainly not gonna go out and look for support groups to talk about it.

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We're from the developed world, Sarmatian. ACIN is talking from the perspective of the developing world. Can't be compared.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I am surprise to see there are people supporting racist laws and practices in society. So Hitler banning Jews for access to Germans shops and service were bad, but if the Jews were not happy, they could go somewhere else…


This is kinda different imho, it's discrimination on sexuality not on race. The motivation is completily different, not wanting to serve gays is dumb but if they don't want to out of (religious) principle that's up to them.

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That's right, the jews didn't want to go to german shops out of religious principle. And then they didn't want to go outside the gas chambers out of religious principle. Americans always just spin everything the way they want it.

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Originally Posted by Husar

That's right, the jews didn't want to go to german shops out of religious principle. And then they didn't want to go outside the gas chambers out of religious principle. Americans always just spin everything the way they want it.

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Since when am I American. As I see it christians can be conservative because christianity is an established religion and part if American culture. You don't have the right to be served when you visit a private establishment, if the owners don't want to serve gays because homosexuality is against their religion, which is a big part of their life, I can't get all that upset about it really. It's very easy to slap me around and turn it against me like Horetore just did of course. Happily granted. If the best argument wins I lose.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Since when am I American. As I see it christians can be conservative because christianity is an established religion and part if American culture. You don't have the right to be served when you visit a private establishment, if the owners don't want to serve gays because homosexuality is against their religion, which is a big part of their life, I can't get all that upset about it really. It's very easy to slap me around and turn it against me like Horetore just did of course. Happily granted. If the best argument wins I lose.

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I have no idea what you are talking about but I was saying the Americans spinned it as though Hitler made the Jews do all that when they really did it out of religious principle of course. There may also have been sarcasm involved which may be really hard to detect. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Husar

There may also have been sarcasm involved which may be really hard to detect. :rolleyes:

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You are German

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

There's no reason to talk about stuff I don't believe in. I will say it when it's appropriate but otherwise won't talk about it. I also don't believe in reincarnation, Zeus and that spirits of my ancestors are watching me (perverted voyers they may be). I'm certainly not gonna go out and look for support groups to talk about it.

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Like I said, it is mostly an American thing. Over here Atheists like to pretend as if they are persecuted and act accordingly.

"Over here Atheists like to pretend as if they are persecuted": Well, they are...

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Originally Posted by Brenus

"Over here Atheists like to pretend as if they are persecuted": Well, they are...

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I have not been persecuted once in my life and I have lived in very conservative areas. I know you feel that Jehovah's witness are monsters knocking on your door to burn you at the stake, but in reality they are just nice people that are very confused.

I remember when I visited Atlantic city several years ago. On one entrance to the city, there was a huge billboard telling me that Jesus died for my sins. It was a huge wtf situation for me.

This is eerie ... I live in Folsom, a suburb of Sacramento, and was just in the ER of this hospital YESTERDAY being treated for a boxer's break on my left hand (don't ask). Given my tenuous financial circumstances I hope I don't get a bill like this, sheesh. Strange, that I should pop in here and see this, now.

As to the subject, it is an outrage imo, but par for the course these daze. Then again, I am extremely biased on such topics.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

American Healthcare, the more I read about it, the more angry I get...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/JVU5Mxs.jpg

It is clearly broken, even with 'insurance' which doesn't even cover the costs.

"But if we have an NHS, they would tax us far more! its evil and the guvvment will rob us"
Increase in tax amount (over-generous 10%): $170 (from 1700 average per month in US), $340 (Family) Insurance Premiums: $400 Single, $1114 (Family) [2009] (Current is apparently significantly higher)

With this, you get all your costs covered except for prescription medication which you will receive at a discount price.

Pretty much, paying the extra-tax would be cheaper unless you are earning over $4000 per month. When you start getting up into those higher figures, you can afford to pay more regardless.

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Originally Posted by Togakure

Given my tenuous financial circumstances I hope I don't get a bill like this, sheesh.

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Let us know how the bill turns out, if you are okay with doing that. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Togakure

This is eerie ... I live in Folsom, a suburb of Sacramento, and was just in the ER of this hospital YESTERDAY being treated for a boxer's break on my left hand (don't ask). Given my tenuous financial circumstances I hope I don't get a bill like this, sheesh. Strange, that I should pop in here and see this, now.

As to the subject, it is an outrage imo, but par for the course these daze. Then again, I am extremely biased on such topics.

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Well, on the plus side, your hand didn't make your typing this post into a fiasco! Get well soon.

Georgia might pass a similar bill and understandably most people who live within the city limits of Atlanta are angry. Plus if we ever want the superbowl in Atlanta this bill cant be passed.

Still disgraceful that it was even brought up in the first place.

Seems that just as we're discussing Kansans attempted silliness the Arizona legislature snuck past us.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/us/arizona-anti-gay-bill/
Governor still undecided on whether to veto or not. And Arizona is also vying for a Super Bowl.

I want to know why homosexuality and a boxer-break are in the same thread.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I want to know why homosexuality and a boxer-break are in the same thread.

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Surely there is some local pub you could frequent that might provide more insight?

Arizona's Governor vetoed the bill. Also Texas had its Gay Marriage ban ruled unconstitutional but like the other recent rulings, there is a stay on the decision until Kitchen v. Herbert is settled.

This is a tempest in a teapot IMO. This will get struck down on account of the 1st and 14th amendment. I imagine that Kansas legislators know this, and are just playing to the crowd, or trying to distract the pro-gays with a side show or something.

In any case, how exactly will a cop who violates the 14th amendment section 1 (equal protection under the law) by refusing to protect a gay couple from a criminal prove that he did so on the basis of sincere Christian belief? Because the Bible says that gay sex is a sin? It also says that we are all sinners, so he might as well protect no one. Because the Bible says to love everyone? To not judge others or you yourself will be judged? Tough to argue that punks should be allowed to beat up gays on the basis of those texts. How can he prove his sincerity in court when his actions contradict the Bible? Its so ridiculous it would be funny if it were not for the possiblity that someone will really get hurt before the Supreme Court trashcans this.