Bethlehem Christian farmer holds out against settlers and the IDF

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Thing is that you're going in to conspiracy territory with that. The Bonnier family (Jewish origin) is split into Jewish and Christian branches with the Christian branch (priest included) are in charge of the media empire. That counts as a maybe, since the branches do have good relations.

Schibsted has no Jewish connections.

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I think it's enough to maintain a degree of awareness, in that case.

Note, I'm not saying Kad is right, just that broaching the subject does not make him a filthy Nazi.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Indeed.

You say "Rupert Murdoch is horribly biased". You don't say "the Australians are horribly biased".

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No - I was simply pointing out that media Moguls are not usually trusted - to refuse to examine motivations because they might be connected to Israel is...

what?

Racist?

I'm honestly not sure.

In any case - I refered the "Evangelical Right" before, and they are often shortened to "Americans" these days, "Americans don't believe in Evolution" etc. I've heard that said.

nationality

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

May I then return the favour and criticise you for being a condescending ******, then?

Criticism is grand, grading isn't.

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I certainly can be at times. I suppose this has put the kibosh on my free skiing lessons.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I certainly can be at times. I suppose this has put the kibosh on my free skiing lessons.

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Nah, I hand those out like candy... One of my ways to make the world a little better place.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Thing is that you're going in to conspiracy territory with that. The Bonnier family (Jewish origin) is split into Jewish and Christian branches with the Christian branch (priest included) are in charge of the media empire. That counts as a maybe, since the branches do have good relations.

Schibsted has no Jewish connections.

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Jews are extremely over-represented in the Swedish media landscape.

You might from that point discuss possible bias.

You don't have to go into conspiracy territory for that.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I think it's enough to maintain a degree of awareness, in that case.

Note, I'm not saying Kad is right, just that broaching the subject does not make him a filthy Nazi.



No - I was simply pointing out that media Moguls are not usually trusted - to refuse to examine motivations because they might be connected to Israel is...

what?

Racist?

I'm honestly not sure.

In any case - I refered the "Evangelical Right" before, and they are often shortened to "Americans" these days, "Americans don't believe in Evolution" etc. I've heard that said.

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If that's the point, one would say "Michael Eisner has a bias towards Israel".

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Jews are extremely over-represented in the Swedish media landscape.

You might from that point discuss possible bias.

You don't have to go into conspiracy territory for that.

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According to every neo-nazi website I have ever read, this is true.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

According to every neo-nazi website I have ever read, this is true.

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Implying that he is off track with this association or that even neo-nazis can get something correct on the "blind squirrel" basis? Just wondering.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

According to every neo-nazi website I have ever read,

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Find a hobby, son.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Jews are extremely over-represented in the Swedish media landscape.

You might from that point discuss possible bias.

You don't have to go into conspiracy territory for that.

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Name a few. Are that close to the whole list, or just a sample?

I'll be fair and say that they're overrepresented compared to their population, but that's because they're very few in total. Having a few % of the media doesn't make you influential, in particular if your political opinions are all over the place (Robert Aschberg is a strong leftie, while Peter Wolodarski is a Swedish liberal, for two of the more influencial that I know of).

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Name a few. Are that close to the whole list, or just a sample?

I'll be fair and say that they're overrepresented compared to their population, but that's because they're very few in total. Having a few % of the media doesn't make you influential, in particular if your political opinions are all over the place (Robert Aschberg is a strong leftie, while Peter Wolodarski is a Swedish liberal, for two of the more influencial that I know of).

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This thread isn't really about that though...

But last I checked, the biggest media had jews in control positions... Schibstedt as you mentioned had a jew as, not owner, but acting chief as an example. Was some years ago I cared about that though, have no idea how it looks now.

But yeah, when I checked last, the list of media with jews in control positions was rather scary... :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

But yeah, when I checked last, the list of media with jews in control positions was rather scary... :shrug:

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Why was it scary? Were they all known godfathers of the jewish mafia or do jews scare you by default?
What's the worse problem, jews owning the press or muslim immigrants and how well do the two get along?

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Originally Posted by Husar

Why was it scary? Were they all known godfathers of the jewish mafia or do jews scare you by default?
What's the worse problem, jews owning the press or muslim immigrants and how well do the two get along?

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I don't know if its worse with muslims in control, or jews... But I would prefer secular swedes myself...

I find it problematic when a minority control the majority of media... Regardless of what minority it is *except maybe intellectuals*

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I don't know if its worse with muslims in control, or jews... But I would prefer secular swedes myself...

I find it problematic when a minority control the majority of media... Regardless of what minority it is *except maybe intellectuals*

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Hitler had the majority control the media, how well did that turn out!?!?!?!?

Godwin aside, wouldn't one expect the typical jewish media mogul to have a problem with muslim immigrants and the muslim immigrants to complain about the jews controlling the media? And would that not both make them fit the stereotypes many have of them and make them your allies in the argument against the other group respectively? And wouldn't that be weird or is that just me thinking so?

Oh and what if they don't mind eachother?

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Originally Posted by Husar

Hitler had the majority control the media, how well did that turn out!?!?!?!?

Godwin aside, wouldn't one expect the typical jewish media mogul to have a problem with muslim immigrants and the muslim immigrants to complain about the jews controlling the media? And would that not both make them fit the stereotypes many have of them and make them your allies in the argument against the other group respectively? And wouldn't that be weird or is that just me thinking so?

Oh and what if they don't mind eachother?

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You don't find it bad enough that a minority control the majority of media? I mean, do we really have to take the discussion further than that?

I've heard other reasonings as to why it's bad... But I'm no expert on it, heck, I'm not even interested.


Let's turn it around, why SHOULD a religious minority control the absolute majority of conventional media in a secular country?

I mean, the obvious thing would be that media portrays the lay of the land. Why do you advocate something else? :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

You don't find it bad enough that a minority control the majority of media? I mean, do we really have to take the discussion further than that?

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The top 1% control 40% of the Worlds wealth. Viva-la-revolution!

But seriously, if you really think the 'jew' all have an entire agenda and in each others pockets, then you need to smell it and quickly realise it is like saying you, Viking and HoreTore are in bed together with Sigurd, because you are Scandinavians.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

You don't find it bad enough that a minority control the majority of media? I mean, do we really have to take the discussion further than that?

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Yes, apparently.
We have to come to terms on what kind of minority they are. The term jew does not really tell you much about a person, it can refer to heritage, religion and possibly culture so we cannot really derive much from it. According to Ironside they do not even represent the same political views, and why would they?

I'd be far more worried by Scientology controlling the entire media landscape and that cult actually does actively try to insert its followers into companies AFAIK.Just to bring that example up yet again, North Korea does not have many foreigners controlling anything but that does not make it a great country. I would claim that historically the same kind of ideas that keep foreigners out of a country are the ones that foster all the other ideas which make a country unpleasant to live in.

And let's not forget that it hardly matters who controls the media in Sweden or Austria. The moment Austria suspected Snowden was in a plane, they forced it to land. Even though Austria has absolutely no reason to look for Snowden all by itself. I find that also much more worrying than who sells the most tabloids.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

The top 1% control 40% of the Worlds wealth. Viva-la-revolution!

But seriously, if you really think the 'jew' all have an entire agenda and in each others pockets, then you need to smell it and quickly realise it is like saying you, Viking and HoreTore are in bed together with Sigurd, because you are Scandinavians.

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Odds are, we as Scandinavians agree on a whole lot. Inclusive education is one. Abortion rights is another. Taxes being a good thing is a third...

Just because we disagree on some questions (even bigger ones), doesn't mean we, by and large, are more like each others than we are to, say, Rajpoot or PVC...

Also, just because 1/4 of us disagree, 3/4 of us will agree. Our culture thus dictate the general outcome, even if a minority disagrees on a specific notion.

IE, Viking might be against high taxes even though being scandinavian... But it matters little, as the other 3 representing scandinavia like it, and are in majority on the issue.

Of course there are cultural trends.


And, I find it obvious that it is a BAD thing when a MINORITY culture control the MAJORITY of traditional media.

And on the 1% controlling blah blah blah is worse than jews controlling media... YES that is a more important issue. But saying something else is worse does not excuse other wrongs, does it? :inquisitive:



Husar, That answers you as well?

And why do you assume that the culture of a swedish jew is so radically different than that of other swedes?
Would it worry you if all the media in Sweden were owned by catholics?

And what should be done about this "problem"? Disown them? Is it a good idea to let the government instead of the market decide who can own the media? And what does the latter tell us about the worries other Swedes have about the owners of the media? Maybe you're a minority with your worries and it would be worrying to let your minority decide how to go about this.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Implying that he is off track with this association or that even neo-nazis can get something correct on the "blind squirrel" basis? Just wondering.

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Implying that's where his information originated.

The beauty of the counting mechanism involved, is that you can pick whatever minority you want, and show that they 'control the media'. Utter rubbish to anyone but the logically challenged.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Find a hobby, son.

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I get paid to do that.

Cut your hair and get a job, hippie.

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Originally Posted by Husar

And why do you assume that the culture of a swedish jew is so radically different than that of other swedes?

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Because, jews.

It's rather hilarious that some people believe that people who have been in the country for a century counts as 'foreign'. The majority of the Swedish jewry(excluding some recent arrivals) are as Swedish as anyone else. And like all other Swedes, they are mostly secular and non-religious. For most, the only association to Judaism is a grandpa with a holocaust story and some slight alterations to holidays.

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Originally Posted by Husar

And why do you assume that the culture of a swedish jew is so radically different than that of other swedes?
Would it worry you if all the media in Sweden were owned by catholics?

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Of course I would, yes. What part of basically "any and every minority" is it that you don't get?

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And what should be done about this "problem"? Disown them? Is it a good idea to let the government instead of the market decide who can own the media? And what does the latter tell us about the worries other Swedes have about the owners of the media? Maybe you're a minority with your worries and it would be worrying to let your minority decide how to go about this.

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Raise public awareness of the problem?

However, how to distinguish that from "let's all gang up on the jews" is quite another issue.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Because, jews.

It's rather hilarious that some people believe that people who have been in the country for a century counts as 'foreign'. The majority of the Swedish jewry(excluding some recent arrivals) are as Swedish as anyone else. And like all other Swedes, they are mostly secular and non-religious. For most, the only association to Judaism is a grandpa with a holocaust story and some slight alterations to holidays.

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I'm going to take a punt at this, just for fun.

What's odd about Swedish Jews?

How about that they're still recognised as Jews, even if non-religious?

Ed Milliband makes a lot of being Jewish, despite being an Atheist, and has said that if he wins the election he will be Britain's "first Jewish Prime Minister". This begs the question of why Disraeli wasn't Britain's first Jewish Prime Minister - he was a Christian and Milliband is an Atheist.

So what gives?

I personally think that what gives is that Jewish identity is more robust than pretty much ANYTHING else, that's why Jews get persecuted throughout history - they refuse to stop being Jewish. Now - if you consider that from a political standpoint, given that Jews everywhere insist on being Jews (which is fine) then you can see why they might be perceived to have divided loyalties.

Bear in mind that, historically, the same was thought of Catholics - but Catholics have mellowed a lot since JFk. Roma would be another example of the phenomenon (and it's still popular to hate them).

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I'm going to take a punt at this, just for fun.

What's odd about Swedish Jews?

How about that they're still recognised as Jews, even if non-religious?

Ed Milliband makes a lot of being Jewish, despite being an Atheist, and has said that if he wins the election he will be Britain's "first Jewish Prime Minister". This begs the question of why Disraeli wasn't Britain's first Jewish Prime Minister - he was a Christian and Milliband is an Atheist.

So what gives?

I personally think that what gives is that Jewish identity is more robust than pretty much ANYTHING else, that's why Jews get persecuted throughout history - they refuse to stop being Jewish. Now - if you consider that from a political standpoint, given that Jews everywhere insist on being Jews (which is fine) then you can see why they might be perceived to have divided loyalties.

Bear in mind that, historically, the same was thought of Catholics - but Catholics have mellowed a lot since JFk. Roma would be another example of the phenomenon (and it's still popular to hate them).

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Jews insist on being Jewish...? They are more visible than others?

I'm sorry, but a claim like that needs more backing than an anecdote about Milliband.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Jews insist on being Jewish...? They are more visible than others?

I'm sorry, but a claim like that needs more backing than an anecdote about Milliband.

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Well, "Insist" is the wrong word, but it's hard to articulate.

If you want more evidence, I refer you to the last two millennia.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, "Insist" is the wrong word, but it's hard to articulate.

If you want more evidence, I refer you to the last two millennia.

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It hardly explains why the Swedish Jews are anything other than normal Swedes.

Well, except for being banned from entry until a century or so ago, that is.

Edit: as for the concept of "jewish control", have some Alan Dershowitz.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

It hardly explains why the Swedish Jews are anything other than normal Swedes.

Well, except for being banned from entry until a century or so ago, that is.

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Because there shouldn't be any Jews left anywhere, like there are no worshippers of Odin (yeah, those nancies don't count).

Judaism is - odd.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Because there shouldn't be any Jews left anywhere, like there are no worshippers of Odin (yeah, those nancies don't count).

Judaism is - odd.

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What specific behaviour does this cause in the average swedish jew today?

Actually, vis-a-vis the time honored belief in some mystical Jewish cabal controlling things behind the scenes and manipulating us all like puppets....

Wouldn't they have been smart enough and connected enough to set up Israel to have a government that was at least a bit more efficient and less malfed up than Italy for example....

just sayin'....

What about Americans building an entire Bavarian-style village? Do they refuse to give up their germanness?
I suppose part of what makes the jewish identity so strong for some of them is that it is not entirely clear (even to some jews) whether it is a religious or a cultural thing or maybe a language thing or an ethnicity? We had a thread in the Frontroom about it long ago IIRC. Similarly you have Arabs in northern Africa and if you go by the language definition, then every white christian European who learns Arabic also becomes an Arab.

As for minorities in Sweden, I would also assume that the majority of Swedes are in some kind of minority. What if the minority of Swedes with rare digestive diseases owned the majority of the media? They could force their evil veggie health agenda on everyone or something. Time ti make medical records openly available to educate the people! :stare: