Kataphraktoi

*** UPDATE ***

Ok fellas, so far i Have made the varius factions playable & assigned the factions the provinces they will have and have basically polished off the Roman starting position.

I have also, to the best of my ability changed the names of certain factions to historical names, for instance, it would be too fun playing Enrico the Qaghan of Khazaria http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif so i have been changing the names of the factions, when needed and to the best of my ability.

I will be real busy with work and school the next (2) weeks so you may not see me, but i will work on this whenever i get some spare time. The camp map looks really cool as does the various "new factions".

Additionally, MTW VI will be coming out in about a month, so that is when i hope to launch this new mod, when VI comes out, i hope to add some of the units etc from VI into this mod as they would be great, but until then ill have to wait and see.

Here are the Factions in this mod based in the year 889 AD

Romans
Qaghanate of Khazaria
Kievan Rus
Qaghanate of Bulgaria
Pecenegs
Agarenes (roman word for muslim arabs - this faction represents the many smaller arab emirates based in asia minor, and the Med islands)
Magyars
Kingdom of Great Moravia
Duchy of Croatia
Fatamid/Tulunids (Egypt)
Omayyads (Moors)
Kingdom of Italy
Kingdom of Burgundy
Kingdom of Germany
Kingdom of France
The Danes
The English
The Austurians (Spanish Leon)
The Spanish March (Navare and Aragon)
Pope

Rampaging pagans galore the progony of Charlemagne, vikings, Steppe warriors and fanatical arab raiding emirates. Should be lots of fun.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Yo Galestrum

Lets update the units that people have to install top play this game:

Magyar Cavalry
Patriarch
Arab Corsair
Skutatoi
Klibanophori

please up to this list Galestrum so I know what I have install to play the campaign1

Pecenegs do they need a new unit? the Elite Pidgeonegg horse archers looks like a winner.

over the next few days I will upload existing units that have been revamped.

they locked my "herac and elwe are getting married" post, why????

I still have to make a Slav light infantry.

You guys will dig the Tagmata system in this mod, it will force you to choose where to send your elite forces, east or west, of it doesn;t then well I'll jus try and it harder????

I experimented with the Tagmata system, i restricted the top elite units to production in only Nicaea and Constantinople, I restricted the production of byz inf and skutatoi to asia minor provinces.

I haven't gotten deep into the campaign yet but I did have to make some choices whether to bolster the eastern frontier against the intact and looming armies of the Turds and Eggheadians, while the balkans are in rebel hands.

Meanwhile the Golden hordees are camped outside of Crimea.
yay

For some reason I doubled the cost to train and maintain the elite troops, it is pinching my treasury but thats the way the byz treasury works for according to historians, the byzantine army was the highest and best paid army in the world. so I gotta keep it real and keep it expensive.

You will need the community/LK unit pack ss Req to the community thread here in the dungeon

AND

any units that you make for the mod Kata.

A noble elite Peceneg unit would be good. They would be similar to boyars - call them Patzinak Nobles AND/OR make a generic RoyalSteppeCavalry unit for the steppe faction leader types. (Patzinak is what the Byz called the Pecenegs).

I'll prby be using Boyars for the Magyar and Moravian royal units.

We also need your serbian and croatian skirmisher units Kata.

I am giving the Khazars the Kwarziman as their Royal Unit, based on history.

So far I am going to limit all Tagmata units being prduced in COnstantinople only>

Are we using 69 units from LK

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh installation hell.

Anyway are we really using all 69 units????

fuzzwuzznuzz@hotmail.com for all enquiries heracliusio

gimme ur e-mail and I will chuck in some nice surprises.

I would like to contribute some points if I may.

Warren Treadgold in The Byzantine Revival 780-842 argues that after the invasion of 838 led by the Caliph Mu'tasim, Emperor Theophilos initiated some reforms to improve the performance of the Byzantine army:

1. The soldiers pay was improved from six to twelve nomisma. Treadgold speculates this enabled theme soldiers to buy better arms and equipment.

2. The Persian company of Khurramites was incorporated into the regular structure of the Themes, raising their offensive capability by the addition of experience cavalry.

3. The Bandon led by a count, which had previously been a battlefield formation, was turned into a territorial division. Treadgold also stated this enabled the Count to call up and drill the troops more often. Previously the soldiers had been divided amongst the themes by the turma, which is a thousand men. The new mode of organisation based around the Bandon allowed troops to be controled and summoned concentrated more effectively, resulting in an improvement in their fighting ability and discipline.

4. Frontier commands called Cleisura where also formed, which shielded vulnerable parts of the border, but were not yet full-fledged themes.

If you wish to take this into account, perhaps have the scenario extend to 842 rather then 700.

Here is a also a summary of ranks in the Thracesian theme circa 842

Strategos

Turmarch

Drungary

Counts

Centarch

Decarch

ordinary soldier

hey swamp thing, thank you for the info and the source http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Originally the mod was going to start in 863, however i chse 889 for many reasons.

1) moving the start date 863 or 842 would eliminate the following factions : The duchy of croatia, burgundy, magyars, pecenegs, Rus, & the English, as these factions were either non existant at the time, OR were insignificant OR off map at the time. Since I cannot make factions appear at a designated time like the mongolds etc, as seen in the normal game of MTW, I figured it would be better to allow more factions for the community. Ive already maxed out the factions and i bet someone will go "hey dumbie, what about the xyz faction" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

2) Based on the book The Making of Byzantium 600-1025by M. Whittow, The Byzantine Empire was on basically a defensive onlymilitary posture for quite sometime. That all changed when the Asia Minor Emirates based in Melitene and the their allies suffered (2) devastating defeats within a few weeks. These events marked the beginning of 100 year era of expansion for the empire & also witnessed the transformation of the army, going from a defensive Theme based Army to an offensive Tagmata based army.

So i chose 889 to include more factions & to capture the spirit of a rebirth in the empire, as well as the breaking up of the empire of charlemagne, and the emergence of powerful steppe powers (magyars, pecenegs, Rus)

BTW, if you have any suggestions for any unit types for the 889-1025 time period please feel free to describe them in asmuch detail as possible and give a source if possible so that we may also look at it and learn about it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

thanks for stopping by http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

*** A Question? ***

Historically, how relevant was the Pope from 889-1071 ish?

The reason I ask is there will be no Crusades during this time period, so that takes alot of Popes factional powers away, his only other purpose would be to Excommunicate and give occassional money. I dont know much about the Pope in this time, other than the great schism and what not. Was he excommunicating faction leaders alot at this time, etc?

If not, would you all rather see a Kingdom of Britain Faction (Brittany) in place of the Pope?

The Pope was quite powerful in this time period I believe. After all he crowned Charlemagne, helped destroy the Lombards, ruled a swath of Central Italy called the Papal States, battled the incoming Normans, excommunicated many Byzantine Emperor's and Patriarchs of Consantinople, sent out priests to convert the various pagan "barbarians (as did the Patriarch), was kidnapped by a Byzantine Empire (admitedly before this time period) etc, etc. I would definitely rather have the Pope than a Breton kingdom.

Especially as a single Breton kingdom really isn't entirely accurate for that time peroid...

Cheers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/wacko.gif

A breton kingdom would let a player have more opportunities for glory.

But then again the Pope as powerufl as he was is still libale to become a plaything of any major power who could influence the election of a Pope.

keep in mind the Papacy always respawns very quickly and consistently, so if you made it a bretonian kingdom it would throw the Isle into choas again.

And besides, I am going to make an agent that can be produced by the Germans, I call him the Pope

Yessir I was looking in the MTW files and came across some agents that never made it into the game, with these spare files I can bring in a new agent with a never before seen look unless u r a CA fella.

The Pope acts as a Grand Inquisitor stamping his authority in Catholic lands and also useful as a pwan of GERMAN politics.

Whats the verdict.

DO we have a Pope agent or not?

I meant a Breton Kingdom the province of Brittany there was such a kingdom

as far as england King Alfred the Great united wessex and mercia and became the first King of england worthy of the name

I'd say no pope agent for the Germans. Instead I'd add some kind of intrigue-specialty Byzantine agent that could really show their true diplomatic skill and finesse. I don't have any specifics in mind though. Maybe a super spy or diplomat, a ravishing very marriable daughter (I can never get my princesses married), advanced assasin; I don't know, I'll trust you three to come up with a good idea and just wait to play the mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

ok
now, add an advanced assassin PLEASE

kat, I'm very sorry but I'm not sure if I'll have time to be your "guinea pig", I've been very busy lately and things just seem to keep getting more hectic. I'd be glad to comment on historical stuff but I'm just not sure I'll have enough time to effectively check and test a mod right now. I'm sorry, I know you'll just have to make do with old Elwe now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif, but my hands are tied. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif

I scrapped the Pope pawn I have the files all ready and now only a small tweak will suffice for a monk assassin.

Monk assassins can assasinate anyone but like an assassin can get caught and executed for his vile acts.

These monkies can be trained by Byzantines, they spread relgion and kill as well, wow what a difference

They are of course advantageous on home ground, when in foriegn territory their orthodox religion and nssty habit of killing people make them a villainous pest to be exterminated.

so hows this then???

Originally it was going to be a Cathar priest.

murderous monks? I'd go with silver tongued diplomats but killing someone with an orthodox monk would be kind of cool.

indeed a diplomatic monk and/or

a diplomat/assassin or diplomat/spy would be very roman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

***edit***

A monk that can convert and cause unrest would be great

A diplomat that can bribe, make treaties, yet have the functions of a spy would be great (cause unrest, spy, see vices, open castle doors) would be ideal

***UPDATE***

All right, I have assigned all the factions that I have mentioned, I kept the pope rather than add the Kingdom of Britain (Brittany).

Province ownership has been completed.

Provnce resources, culture, and buildings have been completed, although i will still probably fine tune some buildings in a few provinces but it is for all intents completed.

Appropriate names have been giving to all the factions except the Bulgarians - I will look up some Bulgar names in my book and perhaps the internet, shouldnt be too big a deal, all the other factions have pretty much appropriate names.

Regarding titles, some factions I have no idea what their titles are, and some may be different in 889 than they were for the normal MTW game. If anyone feels they know more appropriate titles for the Pecenegs khazars, bulgarians, magyars etc feel free to post them here, what they should take the place of, and cite any sources if you can http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif

Up next i need to go into the crusader file and adjust units, add units, and get rid of or mod units. After that, I can finish troop deployments and the mod should be ready for a rough test.

***Kata***

So far I have the following units from you: Klibaraphoi (sp), Magyar Cavalry, Arab Corsairs, and the Patriarch agent.

I need the following units from you before i can complete my crusader file and startpos for testing :

Slavic Infantry (fast, can hide, javelins good ag armor, shield, little to no armor, spears)

Ghazi Cavalry (or whatever we are gonna call them, used by the raiding emirates, fanatical, etc)

Peceneg (Patzinak Roman Name for Pecenegs) Elite/Noble/Royal cavalry (not 3 units just 1, i just listed ideas to call them), should be horse archers in mail, sabre, spear

Serbian/Croatian Archers/Skirmishers, I think you have already finished these but i dont know where to D/L these from, link me?

Magyar footsoldier armed with bow and sword, mail armor

Skutaktoi (sp?) i know you have completed but yet again i dont have it cant find it, can you link me?

Kataphraktoi (the unit not you the crazy modder http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif ) -you mentioned a mod of this unit that had a bow, lance etc, i dont have this yet, is it done? if so link me hehe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
Can I make changes to Islamic cavalry, since archery is dominant in Islamic warfare giving the Khwarazmian cavalry bows would give us challenging enemies. I am thinking of adding bows to other cavalry units in the Islamic line up except for the Almohads

Units tweaked :
Kataphraktoi (added bow) D
Khwarazmian Cavalry (added bow and axe) D
Byzantine Cavalry (added lance) D
Polish Retainer now a Bulgar Boyar D

New units made from scratch:
Klibanophori D
Magyar Horse Archers I
Slav light skirmishers I
Croatian Brigands D
Skutatoi D
Norman knight (proposed) no status
Arab corsair (proposed) no status

---

OK just to catch up too, I need your updated versions of Kataphraktoi,Kwarazmian, & Byz Cavalry.

I dont think you need to worry about a Norman Knight unit, i have already given F knights valour bonus in Normandy, plus at this time 889 AD The Norman Knight didnt really exist until later, at which time theyd just be higher valour normal knights UNLESS there was something historically different about norman Knights than normal knights that i am unaware of?

As far as the 69 unit community/LK mod, no we will not be using all of them.

Off the top of my head I used the following units from there.

Klivanarioi (basically your Klib, but i use these as the Royal Unit, they have bows, will compliment your Klib Unit)

BalticWarband Spearmen & Javelinman
Georgian Cavalry
Anatolian Highlanders
Phyrgia Psiloi
BulgarianHeavyCav
MagyarLightCav
Breton Javelinmen
WelshSpearmen
WelshLongspearmen
Irish Light Cavalry
Highland Cavalry
BonnachtSpearmen
Immortals (Roman Unit elite infantry "imperial guard")
Menavatoi Super Heavy Infantry of romans
Hoplite (spear version of byz infantry)
CumanArchars
CumanMercenaryCavalry
NubianJavelin
Trapezitoi

I'll sort out these links this weekend and hopefully have all of them sorted out.

here's an update:

Monk agent has been completed.

And I made another useful unit, its called the vassal,
in Byzantium's history they've often sponsored their enemies's internal rivals to fight their wars for them. If successful the vassal rules the territory as a vassal for the Byzantines, territroy acquired basically, they also get the income as a tribute.

I will post the links of the new units then the modded old units later.

mystery unit



mystery unit 2

mystery unit 3

mystery unit 4

mystery unit 5

If these mods goes goofy jus give us a buzz and I'll fix it.

I was occupied with new agents and haven't been able to make pechens and slavies but they're on their way. word out.

Super cool.

hey Kata http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

ill add these to my MTW and see how things are, and as soon as I have something resembling a finished/playable product ill send you the needed files, of course youll need to have the units from the 69 community pack installed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

good work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

you two are gods. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif


PS-Galestrum, I believe it is spelled skutatoi. and what are klivanarioi?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Mar. 26 2003,07:17)]Are we using 69 units from LK

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh installation hell.

Anyway are we really using all 69 units????

---

I'll make an install for the units if you want.
Lord Kas will be updating some of the units soon also
But you should make your own install really.

More so if you only intend to use only some of them.
If you wish we can make an install just for the ones you want also.Let me know if this would help or not.
regards

LK

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

*** UPDATE & ANSWERS ***

ok, well i have a basic working mod as of now. Lots of hair pulling and expletives were uttered, but now all that is needed is adding new units, placing tropp deployments and some tweaks to provincial buildings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Once i have all the needed units tested, tweaked and finalized we shall see how it looks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

I am also thinking about adding the so called civil rights add ons for pagan and jewish agents and buildings. Khazar was a jewish nation, and many of the factions in this mod are pagan. Ive never tinkered with this, so ill probably kill myself in frustration, but what the heck, im a glutton for punishment http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Also, when VI comes out, that will allow for the "final version" of this mod. From what the expert modders out there surmise, we may have opportunites for new units/looks and perhaps buildings, etc, plus the option to change faction colours etc.

It would also be nice if the history buffs could find battle standards for the factions in this mod and we could add them, for a finer touch - thats all for now, im sure i forgot something and will post a reply in the next 60 seconds though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif

to Lk I am totally lost regarding zipping, uploading, downloading, posting, and auto installing and all that high tech jazz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif perhaps Kata will know more than I. Once i Have something worth offering to the public ill contact you, if we cannot figure it out ourselves. thx for the offer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Hera sup there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif The Kliv are another way of spelling Klib, they come from the 69 community unit mod. Historical references suggest that the Klib were heavy shock cavalry, but that one in five were archer cavalry. Well it just so happens that these (2) units are distinctive in archer and shock, the Kliv are archers and Kata's Klib are shock.

So, I made the Kliv the royal unit, that are archers, and Kata's Klib the shock Thus you will have the various regiments of the Tagmata represented by: the Klib, Kliv, Kata, and Byz Cav, along with the Immortals, Menavatoi & Varagians as the Tagmatic Infantry.

And Hera you are Greek you better know how to spell these guys correctly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif Of course in the Book by Bartusis, he said Byzantine Greek was very hard compared to the other forms, so ill let you slide this time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Guys I discovered some flaws in the mods:

Arab Corsairs is missing LBM file in the mtw/battle/uniticons folder. I used the hashashin lbm file in the same folder so just copy the it in the same folder and rename it "arabcorsairs"

The vassal mod does not, work no matter what I did it did not work.

good news is that ghazicav and pecheneghorsearcher is ready to download yay.

Galestrum scream expletive and rip ur hair as much as can cos that means a good mod campaign. for the glory of byzantium

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

pechies

slavinfantiles

ghazzo's horsies

Galesstrum I leave it up you to change their stats once again, you decide what stats are appropiate for the mod.

Since u have the know how and who's the factions I leave it ur discretion.

its very unfortunate about the vassal it would have been a good unit after all

I still have a few units on the board:

Saint as an agent. just another big name preacher for the byzantines, there were a couple of living saints for the Byzantines and some dead ones, I 'm thinking of a warrior saint unit, he doesn;t kill but he's still one mean preacher..........or maybe another.

Warrior Saint unit...but then again with all the Tagmatic cavalry thats going around I think it has no place.

Kliv archers
Klib shock absorbers
katas archers and shockers
byz cavalry

thats what I call offensive units - wow so many elite units

I hope Galestrum makes them expensive to train and build cause they're really worth their weight in armour. i could certainly use a fiscal challenge as well as a military one.

How bout a few new buildings???
Byzantine loved buildings churches and buildings, any Emperor worth his salt will try to immortalise his name with buildings:

in the works are:(mweaNING THINKING OF)
THE GREAT PALACE
SAINT ANASTASIOS MONASTERY
SAINT DEMETRIOS CATHEDRAL
VIRGIN HODGETRIA CHURCH
NEA CHURCH

they are nothing new but for any player who would like to fill up his capital with nice buildings that generate gold

I am thinking of making a muslim and catholic equivalent set as well, when I of course have the time off.

they are meant to be unique buildings built in one place and for anyone who captures the province they can destroy it for money money money, any pagan faCTION woudl like that.