turks are fin sinan, though they will more than likley ro SHOULD lose most of thier battles
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turks are fin sinan, though they will more than likley ro SHOULD lose most of thier battles
I would also like to play as the Turks on early.
I am cuurently in the process of writing my SP guide to playing as them, so a few actual battle would help in the history side of things for the early campaign.
and I do like those Armenian cav and the turk horse cav.
Ok Folks. Sorry I'm a little late from work but here we go.
The rules for tonight's battle:
The Players (so far):
ErikJansen
PrithviRaj Chauhan
Sjakihata Akechi
Sinan
Any other players are welcome.
The name of the game in MTW lobby: The Arena
Password: hrs
Password stands for historical re-enactment society if you wonder.
Map: DesertFlat04
Terrain: Sandy Desert
Season: Summer
Background: Crusader troops are crossing the Sinai desert after having successfully taken the Holy Lands. The Egyptians mount a mobile defence in the desert to weaken the invading forces, before the final battle for Cairo.
Attackers: French
Attackers Victory Conditions: Transit the map from bottom to top following the center line of the map for both armies.
All Crusader units must march down the center at least till half way across the map, as if in column formation.
Unit Regulations for Attackers:
-16 units to each army
-13 Crusader troops in each army (Fanatics, Order Foot, Knights serving an Order e.g Templar)
-11 out of 13 Crusader troops must be foot soldiers
Deployment Restrictions for Attackers: Attackers have to deploy as far back and as close to center as possible.
Defenders: Egyptians
Defenders Objective: Defeat or significantly weaken the Crusader armies.
Unit Regulations for Defenders:
-12 units to each army
-8 cavalry to each army of which 4 must be Horse Archers
-Remaining troops must be Islamic religious warriors i.e Ghazi, Nizari.
Deployment Restrictions for Defenders: Defenders must deploy as far backward and as close to flanks as possible.
I'm headed to the lobby now. Hope to see y'al there.
HF & GL
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AWESOME everyone is on Roger Wilco -------> heading to lobby
Something's come up here and I got to run off for a few hours.. won't be back on until pretty late http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif
I'll be on later though if at all possible...
Gah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Ok that's cool mate. Don't forget to download Roger Wilco.
Players as of now....Sinan, PrithviRaj Chauhan, Sjakihata Akechi, Jango.
So where do i get Roger Wilco
and do i have to pay for it
Hey Mate.
No Roger Wilco is free, but it is not a necessity, you can join our game without it.
It's just easier to talk than to type that's why the players currently in the game are using Roger Wilco.
In any case once the game starts we will split up into two teams each will use their own communication methods, that could be either voice or type.
So how many do we have at the momnet
Have u got ICQ ?
106529624
is my number
if it aint too late can i play?
Hi Stormer, Im just waiting for SeljukSinan to come back
sinans on my msn list but offline atm if that helps but his not on msn much anywayz.
Good battle tonight guys, i really enjoyed it
That was a great battle.
OK finally we got the battle started after a major challenge of getting people together at the same time.
Instead of jogging my weak memory about a real historical battle. I thought while we make custom maps, and set up the real historical ones, why not have some battles in between within some guidelines to make the game just a little bit more interesting.
I can say with great pleasure that we all enjoyed this battle, and I hope we can do at least one more this weekend. Thank you, guys for playing.
ShadeWolf
MK_Eomer
Sjakihata Akechi
Sinan
I created this hypothetical situation where the French Crusaders had successfully take the Holy Lands. Encouraged by their victory they were now on the march to Egypt. Across the desert of Sinai, two Egyptian divisions were dispatched by the frail Egyptian Empire, as Muwahid to harass the enemy in Mamluke territory.
Although there is still some tweaking to be done in terms of rules, the battle was exhilarating, and very very very tense (for the defenders at least). The Rules were not followed to the letter but that's best since it allows for some individual interpretation of the guidelines.
The French formed up in a wide scattered column and continued to march, past an oasis. They were harassed marginally by the defenders. Initially the French had a good box like formation, which could have been employed to their advantage. However once in the march the French formation began to dissipate and the Egyptians seized on the opportunity to annihilate 2 units while weakening another.
The French undeterred by the sheer strength of their numbers marched confidently onward. The French now closed formation again and did not allow any Saharan or Mamluke within their ranks. Mamluk archers continued to pepper fire from the left flank. The Egyptians withdrew from the left flank and began a wide encirclement. The division forming up behind the Crusaders while removing another Templar unit from the battle.
In the end game the French were almost at the top of the map. The victory conditions for the French were simple to cross the map and reach the top.
The French broke into a huge loose formation. At this stage the Egyptians launched a final offensive with Nizari warriors. The Nizari intermingled in between the French formation. The Egyptian right flank moved to complete the encirclement while the left flank struck from the rear.
Remarkably the French troops routed. The battle was won for the defenders.
My personal observations:
-The Egyptians were not aggressive enough in their harassing tactics
-The French did not employ a fixed defence which could have won the day by using fatigue against the enemy horse archers.
Thanks All.
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My Apologies Stormer & Wolf.
While you were here I was in the MTW lobby.
*bows*
id love to get a replay of this sinan, you know what my email is
I have a reply which I can post tonight...
The Crusader army was made up of mainly Order Foot, Fanatics and templars.
We started off quite well in good columns,a little square but fairly compact.But due to the fact of the heat and the different speed of each unit ie foot and horse, we soon found it hard to keep moving.
We were almost half way across the map and the cav were exhausted; this was without much movement.
We despatched the columns of fanatics as bait/ decoy, which the Egyptians fell for, but we were then unable to deploy the cav quick enough to spring the trap.
It was a major defeat for the Crusaders, but we did manage to kill 300 Egyptian troops, although we lost almost 2000.
We were unable to push any advantage forward, basically due to the fact that we were faced with a large army of Egyptians at the top of the map, so at some time we would need to fight
In my opinion, if we had of setup a defensive position, instead of going on the offensive
- 1 We would have died of exhaustion and have been easily picked off
- 2 We were sitting targets to the more nimble horsemen
Therefore due to the factm we had no ranged units of our own, we needed to employ a more aggressive approach.
IN my opinion, this is what MTW should be all about, actual, proper reinactments of battles, factual or madup, but using correct units against the correct enemy.
This makes it a little more interesting, as you have an objective, instead of the usual kill everybody, this is a good starting position to creating a campaign of sorts....
sounded great.
.... and I missed it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif
Can I please have a copy of the replay?
Very good points ShadesWolf.
Each Egyptian army/wing/division consisted of no more than 560 men. Therefore 300 Egyptian losses though less than the Crusaders are still significant.
There was a very effective use of the fanatics. Initially the Mamluk did engage them but if you notice once the plot was discovered the fanatics were surrounded by 3 Mamluk. Meanwhile what I noticed is that the Crusader cavalry had trouble to break out from the rear of the spear protection. The dense mass of Order Foot Soldiers made it difficult for the Crusader cavalry to break out and attack the Mamluk.
I must add that the Egyptian foot soldiers were consisting of 6 Nizari units, and two Muwahid. The Egyptian Ghulam Cavalry, also on the top of the map, did not have the luxury of mobility. Therefore this cavalry could only be used in a final last ditch effort. Whereas the Saharan, Mamluk and Mercenary cavalry on the left, did have high mobility, and therefore was able to approach behind the Crusader armies.
I do think that a box formation with cavalry to the interior and spears on all sides in the center of the map would have changed the outcome somewhat. Once fatigue is equal in both armies it becomes a matter of who runs first. The only way to equalise fatigue for the attacker is to make the defender wait. Once in the center of the map a box formation edging slowly forward may have caused problems to the Egyptians. By sticking close together and offering no rear or flank to the enemy, the Crusaders may have marginalised the Egyptian advantage.
In the last fight, the Crusaders were essentially hit pretty hard from the rear. There was little protection to the rear of the Crusader army. In any case to be honest just watch the replay, zoom in on the Crusader army and listen to the march, that was what I was listening to EEEEKK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/shock.gif, pretty scary.
I totally agree that games such as this within guidelines and objectives, where each knows the general composition of the enemy army, are by far MUCH more interesting than standard win/lose games. More fun to come
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I agree some good points...
We had two main problems with the cav and where to position them.
we eventually went for the idea of protecting them in the centre of the army, thus stopping any arows from hitting them. This was successful in protecting them, but when it came to the counter attack - with force, they were unable to break free, thus when they did escape the army was split and they had become exhausted.
I would like to replay this game at some point seeing we know now what to expect from the weather in the way of exhaustion.
Anyway I must admit it ws really good fun.
Anybody for Agincourt ?
well sinan, id love to try one of these breakthrough scenarios as the defenders... sounds like a doozey
May I add,
The reason, as I see it, that we won was due to some basic elements of tw series:
1) fatigue
2) hill advantage
3) flanking
4) morale
I will explain accordingly.
Ad 1:
We (defenders) enjoyed the benefit of having some fatigue left for the actual main confrontation. This helped us to quickly get the first 100-200 important kills.
(After the clash we were exhausted too).
Ad 2:
First we deployed at the flanks (according to the rules see above), and agreed to move together when they would approach. We waited to fool and deceive them, as good as possible. Our last stand was on a little bank, which gave us the advantage along with the fatigue.
Ad 3:
Sinans left flank composed of quick and mobile cav including alans, saharan and horse archers. They were able to harass the left flank/rear and avoid clash due to superior speed. On the right flank I had my 4 horse archers, which first shot their arrows then moved to the right/rear.
When the crusaders charged us, we counter charged the front with: 6 nizaris, 2 muwahid and one ghulam cav. Simulatnously sinan engaged the left/rear, I the right/rear and right/front.
It means that we made a circle around them and soon they routed.
Ad 4:
Due to early casualties, rooting chiv. knights and almost constant missile fire the morale of the crusaders were diminished.
This helped us to preserve our sand
Very good and enjoyable game guys, thank you
And thanks to Sinan for setting it up and organizing it - more please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
Edit: typos and understanding.
My pleasure. *bows*
We can have loads of objective, scenario based games like this anytime. Took about 30 minutes to organise my thoughts, but about 60 minutes to get everyone together http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif LOL .
Brilliant & concise comments, much appreciated Sjak.
A Zip folder with Readme, Screenies, and Replay have been sent by email to all requested 18:31 CET 07/06/03.
*Salute*
Hey it looks like the Seljuks are riding again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
I'm off to checketh my maileth
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http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
By the way gentlemen while we campaign for a Multiplayer campaign let's have some historical or hypothetical battle campaigns (as Alro already suggested).
This gives us something to do with what we already have in multi-player ---> battle engine.
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Me = English please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b