Um, are you (dclare4) still here?
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Um, are you (dclare4) still here?
Hi there KM,
Yes still here but rarely visit the forums nowadays. I've been kinda busy in the 'real world'. :(
About the mod, I think there are plenty of really great ideas hopping about here but unless you can gather critical mass of support it will either not get done and just remain an idea or take a very long time to do. That being said I think the greatest hurdle for now would be the map, followed closely by the unit graphics w/c u can only do so much with. However with the plan to adapt most if not all the MTW VI units I think that will relieve the burden somewhat. So the map. If you have seven or eight factions, though if possible more (seven playable with maybe two or three powerful non-playable ones) each should have at least 2 land areas plus maybe 4 areas for expansion around them, hmmm... fifty would be okay I guess though it might be kind of tight. I was originally planning to just write over the original MTW map with Iberia being the North of Scotland and on downwards to Russia, which would be the North Midlands. That's the kind of scope I'm picturing also so that there's plenty of room to grow - I personally think the VI map is way too cramped.
Best regards,
Clare
By the way, what are factions that you wanted in it?
Hail HM Malcom of Scotland,
I can't remember them all off the cuff but I was thinking of playing this in a similar manner to my previously planned War of the Roses game in that you historically have two 'sides' -Jacobite and 'Whig' (Hanoverian) or three if you count the 'foreign powers' though these would be a subset of the Jacobite faction. But beneath these sides would be the factions of the great lords which use their 'allegiance' or adherence to one side or another to justify their power-grabs. So it's really every faction for itself in reality. The biggest let down in game purposes is the utterly HORRENDOUS MTW diplomatic engine w/c just utterly... I don't know... it's pathetic w/c is sad. I would have liked it to be possible to build tenuous 'alliances' with other factions without wiping them out. Perhaps if we modified the campaign points so you can win without wiping out the others :) ? Genocide is not only unrealistic but it's not a behaviour I want to encourage :)
Factions:
Drummond (Perth) - the 'main' Jacobite faction loyal to the exiled Stuarts.
MacDonald (Glengarry) - the 'main' Highland faction loyal to the Celtic highland clanships
Graham (Montrose) - the 'main' Scottish faction loyal to the (lowland) Scottish nobility government
Campbell (Argyll) - the 'main' Government faction loyal to the English Hanoverian crown.
Other Factions:
Douglas (Drumlanrig, Queensberry, Hamilton) - secondary government faction.
Mackenzie (Seaforth) - secondary Highland faction
Gordon (Huntley) - secondary Scottish nobles faction
Cameron (Erracht) - secondary Highland faction
Hanoverian (English) - the 'Pope faction' a non-player faction that represents Crown lands and forces in Scotland.
Can't think of the others right now...
About the map, I hope there will be provision for 'jump maps' - this is a little innovation of mine - w/c are land regions that are connected only to each other. Like for instance the land region of Stirlingshire would be on the main Scotland map, but this connects to the off map 'jump map' of Stirling Town w/c in turn has its as its castle, Stirling Castle. The only way to 'take' Stirling Castle is by first conquering Stirlingshire then taking Stirling Town. Ditto for places like Edinburgh, London, Inverness, Eileen Donan, etc.
Best regards,
Clare
Oops Almost forgot
The Frasers of Lovat and the great MacShimie (Simon), the most evil man in Scotland Interesting (and should be playable) minor faction
Clare
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the jump-map.
Also, wasn't there several Clan MacDonalds loyal to (King) James (VIII, old pretender, stuart). And also the Clan Murray, with Lord George Murray was an important clan.
Moved to the new mod development forum currently called Edit3 you may follow this topic there. thanks...LOS
Hello there King Malcolm,
While I would have wanted to simulate and represent all the clans separately the big problem in TW (w/c also stopped my War of the Roses mod) is the utterly horrendous diplomatic portion of the game. So I just thought it would be better to have the major historical fations represented with ability to form tacit alliances - in as much as most of the warfare is really subterfuge (highwaymen, bandits, armed mobs) while formal warfare is expensive (it represents the need to gain widespread support for your cause and should result in a quarter/a third of the map conquered before you can 'buy' actual military units (King George/King James isn't going to just throw his support and troops behind you for nothing).
A jump map is a map that is not attached to the main map of Scotland but is a small 'box' to the side but it can only be accessed from one of the land territories. Like from Lanarkshire you can 'jump' to the jump map of Stirling. This helps simulate the fortifications in that area.
Clare
I have finally got a spare minute to work on the mod again (I had some PC problems, endless essays, and so on)
1) Hmm...How do you do the subterfuge thing?
2) Is the jump-map possible?
3) I assume that some of the previously posted factions won't be used then. Should I think of what ones to use?
Also, I think that the Napoleonic units could be used for some Hanoverian troops, we could ask the Nap people if we can use them.
Of much GREATER concern than the graphics will be getting the game to work (the programming/modding). Try to find your way around the mods already done, test how things work etc. Jump maps SHOULD work (theoretically), as it's mainly a matter of getting the 'neighbors' defined properly.
By Subterfuge I meant simply that there should be lots of 'military units' that represent minor/subterfuge efforts as well as the 'agent' types - for instance Brigands, Reivers (hence you need people to watch your sheep), etc. or stuff like armed mobs and other interesting things.
I think we should focus on getting the skeletal structure up and running and if we can show that then I'm sure that those with graphics skills will be glad to lend a hand :)
Best regards,
Clare
I met the devil and Dundee
on the braes o' Killiecrankie oh
I thought that you wanted a whole separate campaign map for the jump-maps?
Well the basic idea for the jump maps is we can work with either existing maps or make our own as most of the work will be taking place in the definition files - defining w/c regions are neighbors etc. Its sort of like a monopoly board where the map is cartographic but also represents ideas/concepts.
Clare
Hi there King Malcolm,
You're probably in a better position to judge - lets say we mod the MTW Grand Campaign (Europe) Map into Scotland and the British Isles with Spain being the area of Sutherland, Ross and Caithness etc. onwards on down (Russia would probably be the English Midlands), what places would be included? What should the provinces in MTW be renamed into?
Regards,
Clare
Why not just use a new map altogether?
Graphics modding has never been my strength particularly for MTW and I do better with messing with the text files, research etc. Basically though I'd like to know what places should be included in the listing (w/c are the most 'important' locations in Scotland and the British Isles for the purposes of a Jacobite mod)?
Cheers,
Clare
Outer Hebrides (several regions, Lewis, Harris, North/South Uist), Inner Hebrides (several regions, not quite sure which ones), Caithness, Loch Ness area, Edinburgh/Lothian Stirling, Tayside, Strathmore (perhaps merge Strathmore with Tayside), Deeside, Berwick, Roxburgh, Dumfries, Strathclyde, some English regions (no further south than Derbyshire), various Highland regions, Blair Atholl.
I'm still unsure about the Jacobite Rebellion mod. The second was only from 1745-1746, and the first was even shorter. Also, the diplomatic system is bad in MTW, so it is hard to simulate the Government side, and Jacobite side with several clans.
Hi KM,
Yeah diplomacy is horrible so actually players don't play government vs jacobite rather, in the style of the old game Kingmaker, they play rival factions which may develop buildings (representing techs/attitudes/allegiances) that will enable to take one side or the other. Was basically thinking that instead of religion, Christian vs Muslim, its allegiance, Jacobite vs Whig as each faction would have certain tendencies but ultimately is out to win for itself. To simulate diplomacy better, titles will be permanently 'connected' to certain families and giving a player a title will mean he takes the place of the 'controller' or 'factor' who is in real control though the nobleman and his family hold the title (ie. MacDonald Duke of Argyll, Murray Duke of Atholl or Murray Marquis of Tullibardine).
I'm still having serious crash problems with adapting the Muslims to the VI game though and haven't yet found what I'm doing wrong. But its a start at least :)
Alba Go Bragh,
Clare
Campbell was Earl of Argyll, not MacDonald.
Woops My bad Campbell, Duke of Argyll, his partner in crime Dalyrimple of Stair and MacDonald of Clanranald, Glengarry and the Isles :)
Clare
Hi there love the idea for this mod. If you wanted a small hint, you could play the P.C game highland warriors. It's great for your mod... Well i think that anyway.
...well?? Any news of this mod so far?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif
I was doing a map, but dclare4 seems to have started that. I know plenty of things for the campaign. The time, though, seems short, I tink that we should wait for Rome, assuming that it will have months, and such-like.
That's better, wait for Rome: Total war and then you can make it more lifelike. If there is a campaign editor for RTW, you could have that mod up and running in no time. Now, how about a party?
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Hullo KM!
Finally got my password back. Apparently someone hacked the forums a few weeks ago.
When will Rome TW come out anyways? Do you think the map will be moddable? From what I hear the map will be 3D and that sounds harder to do than what we've got here.
It's really a shame that the diplomacy rules here are so simplistic and the alliances are really little more than truces. Still it worked pretty well for Shogun TW and I think it should work okay for Caledonia.
I'm kinda confused though, what would be the start date for the mod? How far back are we going? Just to the start of Jacobitism (Glorious revolution)? I think it would make sense to start there though I would like, if possible to include Covenanter forces for that period. Reworking the factions again as my net computer got infected so things are a little crazy here.
How are you doing?
Clare
I've been reading up on Covenanter history so we can do justice to the movement, their spirit and ideals and why men like Bonnie Dundee (or to them, Bluidy Clavers) found them dangerous.
The early units can be the stock late medieval type units such as pikes, arquebusiers (to be modded to musketeers with matchlocks), etc. Dragoons will, unfortunately, probably have to fire from the saddle as I've yet to see a game that makes dragoons dismountable.
I'm also having trouble with the English (Sassenach) side and the thought of choosing 'religion' (to be modded into political affiliation) - the idea of the game is that each side is a major clan and if powerful and influential enough it can gain the support of the Sassenach (with attendant troops and ships). What I don't want to happen is that two different clans gain Sassenach support and use the English troops to fight each other (somewhat unrealistic!)
Also I think the religion they start out with is the religion they end with. The thing is I think it would be more interesting to be able to declare for either the Whig or Jacobite side rather than having that set in stone. The Drummond clan, however, should be always Jacobite as I'm using them to represent the exiled Stuarts and the court of St James.
Cheers,
Clare
By the way, if you're still so inclined, go ahead with the map. My map-making efforts are going no-where as my photoshop can't convert to the proper format (apparently).
Clare
I don't think that a 3D map for Scotland/Great Britain would be too hard. There are programs which read Ordnance Survey maps, make them 3D, and put a satellite image on top, or any other picture, then get the height file or whatever, and use that.
Autumn it comes out, also.
Hi there KM,
Just been reading the review of RTW. Looks great graphically, though I'm kinda hoping they're going to make the graphics a bit easier to mod, at least for the soldiers. Been reacquainting myself with the Jacobite period again and playing around with values and seeing what will work in MTW. Maybe we're better off waiting for RTW, I don't know. I really can't get past the horrible diplomacy rules and the lousy naval rules. Diplomacy worst of all. I'm figuring out how to make this work while forcing players to play for alliances (so you get Drummond/Perth leading the Jacobites, Campbell/Argyle leading the Whigs and various clans should aline alongside one or the other). Also, warfare should generally be very expensive, more-so for the Whigs than the Jacobites as the best 'Whig' units are of course Government regiments. That's another huge problem, how do we make it so that players commanding 'government' forces don't turn them on each other? Ideally there should be one 'government support' building buildable and once that's done the others can't build it till it's destroyed.
best regards,
Clare
One problem though I just realized... what if they don't have musket type projectile weapons? I hope they keep it in the programming for the sake of moddability. And change the years into months, though that's ruddy doubtful.
Clare