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Is anyone playing muslim armies?
What's your muslim setup on a non-desert map against this catholic army at 10K:
4 Knights Templar
4 Chiv Knights
4 Chiv MaA
4 Pavise XBow
Can't remember the amount of distributed valour, but the setup is quite typical if I remember correctly.
R'as
Here's one for the AlmosQuote:
Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul
4 v3 camels, 3 v3 saharan cav (1 with no valor for gen), 4 v3 Almo urban militia, 2 v3 militia sergeants, and 3 v0 pavs. Without taking player ability into account, which makes a big difference, the catholic army is outclassed except in mobility (camels are slow). If the almo player is on defense, good luck to the attacker. the almos match the catholic infantry. 4 camels + 2 MS will dominate the heavy cav unless used poorly.
a tough fight for the catholic. the one advantage he does have (mobility over almo anti-cav assets) is largely countered by the fast saharan cav which can quickly move to hold against a massed cav flank until the camels/MS can proceed to tear the cav to shreds.
If you're catholic and facing the almos (to a lesser extent egyptians), extra infantry will turn a very tough battle into one you should be able to win.
Sounds promising, mate!Quote:
4 v3 camels, 3 v3 saharan cav (1 with no valor for gen), 4 v3 Almo urban militia, 2 v3 militia sergeants, and 3 v0 pavs. Without taking player ability into account, which makes a big difference, the catholic army is outclassed except in mobility (camels are slow). If the almo player is on defense, good luck to the attacker. the almos match the catholic infantry. 4 camels + 2 MS will dominate the heavy cav unless used poorly.
Got another one for the Turks? ~D
I always get creamed if I play with my favourite faction. In SP campaign I dominate the battle fields with horse archers. In MP this is not the case as most players have more brains than the AI.
My setup (which looses most of the time):
1 AMC for General
3 AHC
3 OttomanInf
4 JanInf
3 Futtuwa
2 JanHeavies or Turcoman Horse.
Main problem: Catholics are too heavily armoured for arrows to have effect.
The melee units can't stand up to Chivalric MaA. Mobility is overrated in MP.
R'as
Well, the Turks don't really make for good team players. They are great 1 on 1, but when playing as part of a team they are often required to stand their ground (or make a rapid attack in response to some development eslewhere). They have difficulty doing either of these things. However, I have seen them used very well when closely supported and coordinated with the rest of the team. They can give your team the initiative, as it's not really difficult to destroy an enemy's pav line if you're willing to sacrifice a cav unit or two in the process. Then you just move your hybrids up and start shooting. This can be useful on the attack, since the most comon response is the enemy will charge you. Run your army backwards and see just how far out of position he will chase you. Preferably, he'll chase you right back to your own lines where your teammates can quickly aid you (at a serious disadvantage to the enemy team).Quote:
Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul
As far as Catholics being too heavily armored, just target the swordsmen. They are what will ultimately decide who wins. A hybrid with a full tank of arrows, if you manage to get them all off, is going to kill about half of a swords unit. Much more than is necessary to give Turkish infantry the ability to beat them. If you kill half before engaging (and assuming a 10k Florin game where 8 morale is the norm) hand to hand they will break shortly after entering melee. You might even be able to break them immediatley with a headon charge by the AHC, depending on their fatigue level.
The trick then is figuring out how to avoid hand to hand that long while managing to pepper your opponent with arrows. Catholic heavy cav is a problem here, since the most common counter for beating a Turkish opponent who wont stand still is to just run some cav at his core infantry (or something else) which he will be hesitant to abandon while advancing the infantry forward. Usually that results in a major battle and catholic infantry wins the day. This is where JHI comes in. It requires more anticipation and micromanagement to use JHI over faster cavalry, but turkish cav just doesn't stack up to chiv knights from an efficiency point of view. JHI on the other hand mauls. It's more than just statistically too, since there are huge moral penalties associated with losing badly. I've had a single unit of v0 JHI knock out or rout off 4 chiv knights (not all at once, obviously) and still end with about half of its strenght left.
So, with all of this in mind I'd probably not modify your army much, if at all. Any turkish army I take is going to be mostly hybrids, 2-4 JHI depending on how much enemy cav I think I'll be facing and the rest in cav. If I'md efending, I'll probably remove some cav and take a couple of crossbows (+3 armor crossbows are equivelant to 0 armor pavs). You don't usually get the luxury of avoiding skirmishing until you're ready to commit on defense like you do on the attack.
Excellent advise Midnj,
thank you. I think it's time to try them out again.
Cheers
R'as
A fairly solid army that can handle pretty much anything thrown at it is:
4 Longbowmen
2 Pavise arbalesters
4 Chivalric Knights
3 Chivalric Men-at-Arms
3 Chivalric Sergeants
Use the remainder of the money to spread valour upgrades across the cavalry and infantry.
This army is pretty versatile and can be used in defence and offence against most armies.
Me too, anyway, lonewolf, someone was asking for you in multiplayer MTW, I think it was a guy named Lord_Wiskey, something like that, and dude your name is almost like mines ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf371
Well here's my Hungarian Army,
1 v0 Szekely (Gen)
4 v0 ChivKinghts
2 v2 Szekely
4 v3 FMAA
1 v0 CFK (with armor upgrade)
3 v0 Pav X-bows (armor upgrade 2)
1 v1 Bulgarin Brigand
I like the set up since it offers me alot of balance, Szekely are the best HA in the game and, at v2 are capable of defeating Fuedal Knights and, Chiv Knights when they work together. 4 Chiv Knights also provide alot of muscle to back up the Szekely.
Pavs, Brigands, and, Szekely also give you 6 (7 if you include the gen) units capable of ranged fire. The Brigands are also decent flankers and, the Szekely can fight on their own if they have to.
The only real weakness is the infantry, 5 melee units isn't alot and, CFKs really never seem to swing the tide of battle for me. Their either to slow and cannot get to the fight on time or they get swamped by superior numbers as my FMAA are routing.
I find my set up to be very good on the defensive but, only okay on the offensive. The Szekely are really the key to this army, if you can get them to draw out and, destroy one or two units of enemy cav, or destroy some Pavs your opponent will have alot of dificulty in the melee.
Lately I have been experimenting w/ all cav. I find the turks and and hungarians to be the best for all cav.
4 v2 ghulams (absorbers)
1 v2 kwaz (gen)
2 v2 cav archers (for taking fire)
3 v2 arm 1 turcos (drawing out units)
4 v1 alans (quick flankers)
2 v2 arms (support)
Baiting is the most fun part of the all cav way. Trying to figure out a way to draw out troops from a vet can be really challanging and fun. However, I find that valor on chiv knights tends to be a waste of money in balanced armies, because it draws money out from the inf that need the valor.
V2 W1 CMAA are OK at 10K but they aren't as good as V3 CMAA - V3's have better def and morale. Still, at 1229 florins V3 CMAA are expensive for 10K.
V3 FMAA are the same as V2 CMAA except the V3 FMAA have better morale. I use the FMAA when fighting in arid to reduce the fatigue factor. Same thing with Chiv Kniights and Feudal Knights - V0 Chivs same as V1 FKs except FKs have better morale and lower armor.
ichi's 10K Hun High Arid
1 V1 Szek
1 V2 Szek
4 V1 Feudal Knights
4 V0 Pavs (maybe swap a Pav for an archer or HA)
4 V3 FMAA
1 V3 CMAA
1 V1 Feudal Foot Knight
I use 4 pavs at 10K to save $$$. 4 Pav Xbows (225 each) costs 900 florins, which leaves 9100 florins for the 12 fighters (average 758 florin per unit). If you go with 3 Pavs you spend 675 which leaves 9325 for 13 fighters (= 721 florins per unit). Now 758 my not seem like much more than 721, but it makes a huge difference.
I use a weak gen that can shoot. THis saves more money for the front line fighters and gives me an additional archer unit. V1 Szeks have morale 6 but th Gen unit gets a bonus so they fight OK, plus Szeks are fast. The V2 Szek can shoot and fight almost as well as a V0 Chiv.
The FFK unit is used to support weak parts of the line or to exploit gaps and slip thru nto the enemy backfield. The V3 CMAA holds the center.
ichi
V3 FMAA has one more defense than V2 CMAA but same morale.
CBR
Come and challenge sometime and you will see my armies and how they look like.
my standard army is usually...
4 Chivalric Knights - For Anticav and flanking
2 Mounted Nobles - These are used to quickly rush out and tie up enemy cav coming at my archers. They hold the enemy Chivs until mine arrive.
3 Pavise/archer
4 CMAA - They win the battle
Then I either get 3 Milita sergeant or highlands basicly anything else.
My VI army
4 Mounted Nobles
2 Horsemen
either 2 dartmen/2 Bonnachts
or
4 bonnachts
then 6 gallowglasses
I'm experimenting with using more Kerns, Bonnachts and dartmen in my armies though. But in a straight 3v3 or 4v4 match not enough room to move around 2
To be honest whenever someone's picked CMAA my FMAA have utterly mashed them. The stats say CMAA are better but the game doesn't for some reason. Look at Hashinin......they should kick ass but they suck totally.....
High 10k army:
1 V2 Mounted Serg gen (lol OK try not to get him engaged unless you really need to)
4 FK 0 val
2 pavs on nothing
1 Militia Serg 3 val
4 FMAA 3 val
2 CMAA 2 val
2 Viking 3 val
P= Pavs
K= Feudal Knights
V= Vikings
M= Militia Sergs
G = Gen
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP (2 ranks loose I prefer)
--KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK (3 of em in 2 ranks deep)
VVMMCCFFFFFFFFFFCCVV (all in 4 ranks)
KKKKKKGGGGGG (2 ranks again)
Basically the FMAA and CMAA ass kick enemy infantry while both the Militia Sergs AND vikings maul enemy cavalry. Trust me they will. When your Vikings, cavalry and Milis have minced enemy cav sufficiently you just use whatever you have left to flank. I've rarely lost with this army. Only trouble with it is that it isn't too maneoverable.
My old time favorite English army, the only one I know by heart.
1 vo templar gen
2 vo CK
1 v1 hoblar/ or w1 mounted sargent
4 v3 CMAA
3 v1 billmen or 3 v2 FMAA
3 vo pavise
2 v0 longbows
There should be enough change left over for an missile upgrade. This army is hard to use because you must use 2 infantry lines effectively but it can handle anything when used right.