The Seleucid Empire

One tip as Seluicids.

If you don't have the money to hire loads of mercenaries in the early game (i didn't, i was too busy building on VH), then you can have real trouble keeping the wolves from the door with only Militia Hoplites and Cavalry, especially when you are struggling to get off the defensive (what with 5 factions attacking you at the same time n'all). However, you do get quite a few family members quite quickly, so instead of using them as governors, mass them all into your main army - in force they are much better than most of the opposition sieging all your towns. If used wisely, you shouldn't lose family members and they'll gain some good experience. Once start getting better troops (levy pikes etc..) you can start retiring them to your main cities.

T he hard part of a very hard campain mode playing the seleucid empire is the fact that you will never be at peace.
and also a key part of the campain is destroying Egypt as soon as possible, or else they will become 1 of the superpowers of the world.
I destroyed the egyptians in 10 years, which wasn't even that hard.
they just seem to never stop producing units !
but when you capture Alaxandria you should be fine, and well on the way.
It 's tempting to take those not to well protected rebel city;s but don't concentrate on your enemy's settlements, much more worth the effort.

also build up your forcess in seleucia, the Partians will attack so it's best to attack first ~:)
use your spy to navigate through partian territory, very usefull.

if you are having trouble with pontus or armenia ( which I had ) take over their core city's, helped me destroy pontus, while also creating a good front towards armenia ( whith those 2 settlements , north of tarsus , which are good troop producing settlements when developed ~:handball: )
Destroying Armenia isn.t a must, I let them sign a ceasefire when I destroyed pontus.

by that time, and well before that ,you will be makeing more money that you will be able to spend, The Seleucid empire will be making tons of denarii even in the beginning of the game.

At this time I'm preparing my troops and moving them to deliver a blow to the Brutii, at this time i'm still neutral with them but I will soon declare war, which they will probably lose :charge:

hope you find my ''advice'' helpfull

It is true that all the rebel provinces are tempting. I managed to stay out of war with all 5 neighbours and tooks Dumatha, Bostra, Palmyra, Ancyra and Halicarnasus in quick succession. Before I knew it, I had over extended my borders, stretched my armies and with not enough family members it was asking for trouble. While I was doing that, my neighbours were busy on the diplomatic front. Parthia and Egypt allied and Greece, Pontus and Armenia formed the Northern Alliance and all attacked me at the same turn. Greece besieged Sardis, Pontus - Tarsus and Ancyra, Hatra was attacked by Armenia. The Egyptians first attacked Damascus, but the next turn two more huge armies came and besieged Palmyra and Antioch. Parthia besieged Dumatha and Seulecia. Needless to say I lost.

It took me awhile to figure out two obvious things: phalanxes should be used for defence and pikemen for offence and never to put any spear/pike unit on the walls. With phalanxes defending a city is so easy. Just camp at the entraces to the city plaza (normally there are 2). I never lost a city even when outnumbered 1:3. I never even used legionaries, but those militia units were great some of them reached 2 or 3 silver chevrons which made them stronger than silver shields (much cheaper upkeep though). I took Armenia, Parthia, Pontus, Egypt and Greece. Had some loyalty problems with the scythian cities to the north. Also I hardly used elephants. And those chariots should not be used at all! They always run amok! For some reason they always choose to come back to my line and the general attracts them like a magnet. Lost 3 generals that way!

I concur, as long as you take some measure to make sure their moral don't go down too soon, milita hoplit is arguablly the best lvl 1 infantry around... and defending (or assaulting) a city street with phalanx is very good

Man, as the Selucids all i can say is, I love levy Pikes!!

Levy Pikemen have saved my butt many times. (especially during a city assault)

Plonk a Levy Phalanx in the street, suddently the entire army is held up! (with the exception of quality cavalry like Cataphracts, but you only need an extra unit behind the first to kepe the roadblock in place).

Currently starting my first Selucid Campaign on H/H...

At start everyone except the Armenians allied with me... my starting leader died of natural causes in the first 3 turn (grrr why alwys happen to me??) and early on rebels poped up left and right... so was basically rebel hunting for a while...

Then I realize the obvious... Alliance aint worth a dime as Pontus Armenia and Egypt hit me all at once... I barely held off Pontus and Armenia with mercenary army (as they were hitting isolated and underdeveloped provinces) and build up a more reliable core army in Antioch to push against the Egyptian.

Somewhat to my luck, after sacking their first city then crushing the counterattack army, the Egyptians acturally agreed to became my protectrate if I give them that city back o_O!!!! obviously 1 city to keep my worest potential enemy off my back is good.

Then amazingly the Greeks hit me with a full stack o_O WTF, then I checked the faction and to even bigger surprise the Greeks are acturally the leading faction o_O, but thx to stupid AI seiging skill I acturally manage to held off the full stack with only 400 men. (the greek family member lead the charge... into 3 stack of hoplits in the city square... needless to say the rest didn't feel like fighting much after that..)

Now with my back secured I'm begining to move against Pontus, I got them down to 1 city now, if i can bring Asia minor under me quickly i should have little trouble in steam rolling those damn Armenians and Pathians (Amusingly Pathia have not attacked me yet.... though we are no longer allied as i broke off with them when they attacked Scythia)

Thoughts so far..... the AI's is retarded in seige assult.... i had one fight where the AI acturally did something smart... rushed my infantry as I tried to move my phalanx outside the walls with a huge number of eastern infantry and managed to overwhelm my phalanx... just when i thought the AI acturally did something I would do he then parked he's whole army outside my walls and let my towers and archers shoot them to hell -.-......

I still dont' get the hang of using scythed chariots.... they seem to run amok or die a lot easier than elephants while they also trample ur own guys easier (as they are faster) why is their defense so low that makes little sense when the rider appears to be fully armored...

Although Milita hoplite/Levy pike and greek archers aren't very spetacular, combined together they still make a extremely solid basic army.. getting archer in most city is a abosalute priority if ur going to survive the defensive phase (and to acturally have something to work with on offense... ur not going anywhere against horse archers without ur own archer however crappy they may be.

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Originally Posted by The_Emperor

Man, as the Selucids all i can say is, I love levy Pikes!!

Levy Pikemen have saved my butt many times. (especially during a city assault)

Plonk a Levy Phalanx in the street, suddently the entire army is held up! (with the exception of quality cavalry like Cataphracts, but you only need an extra unit behind the first to kepe the roadblock in place).

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Same thing goes for city assaults too. Just clog up a street or two with pikemen and nothing will stop you. The only problem here is that time constraints may require a more wasteful strategy.

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Originally Posted by RollingWave

I still dont' get the hang of using scythed chariots.... they seem to run amok or die a lot easier than elephants while they also trample ur own guys easier (as they are faster) why is their defense so low that makes little sense when the rider appears to be fully armored...

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Best use i've seen is killing off my own generals - rushed one out of a city to knock off some militia cav (what all chariots seem good at is killing cav) and watched helplessly as they routed came back to my town center and instantly ran amok killing both the generals I happened to have there.

Lol same, i've had my own general died to amok scyth a few time...
But another funny as hell situation was why I besiged Ankora, Pontus had like 800 men, 2 scyth chariot, a general and afew Pontic light cav along with a load of eastern infantry and hill men... i immideatly send my 2 unit of archer along with 1 unit of merc bedoiun camel archer and pelted one scyth chairot with fire arrow... it ran amok after just 2 volly.. as the Pontic army tried to move from the walls back to the town center, it killed more than 60% of their army (the other chaiort unit ran amok too ) and their general.... that's gotta be one of the easiest seige i've ever done.

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I still dont' get the hang of using scythed chariots.... they seem to run amok or die a lot easier than elephants while they also trample ur own guys easier (as they are faster) why is their defense so low that makes little sense when the rider appears to be fully armored...

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Do not underestimate those Selucid Scythed Chariots... In my Greek cities campaign I had a lot of trouble when a couple of Scythed Chariots got behind my defensive line and started carving up my missile troops and cavalry. (to make matters worse a unit of Elephants joined in as well)

I was outnumbered 2 to 1 at the start of the battle anyway, and most of both selucid armies were comprised of Militia Hoplites. (compared to my armoured ones)

The first army was easily routed and driven from the field, but the second army arrived too quickly and before I could turn and face them two units of scythed chariots and one unit of elephants got behind my lines... They wiped out all my cav and missile troops and consigned my general to an early grave.

Fortunately they couldn't very well hit my armoured hoplites from the rear because the Ornagers were in the way (even if the crews did get massacred).

My veteran armoured Hoplites did carry the day when a couple of them turned and formed a second front against the enemy.

Needless to say I lost half my army, but when the dust settled I had slain over 2,000 men.

They might not be as powerful as Elephants, but they can sure cause some havoc when used right. Still it was a nice move by the AI.

After using them more, i realize their potential, they are faster than elephants and they will mow the enemy down much faster.. where elephants usually require u to have some calvary back up or a infantry wave support to make the charge really count, the chariots will often destroy the enemy all on it's own, however their tendency to run amok at the slightlest wind still make them quiet problematic... (though i guess due to their speed.. u should just simply put them even farther back in ur line and perform a wide angel flanking manuver.)

The best use of scythed chariots is as a mop up unit. Early in the game use them to mop up routers and as a flanking unit. Doing this I got a 7 man unit from no valor to v5 (silver 2) with only 2 deaths. (600+ kills as the army tried to sally)

mfberg

This is the best all-round army in the game, I think. Once you have reached the large city status in a city or two you will become unstoppable with the better armies you can produce. It is mostly a matter of lasting that long.

Your true offensive capabilities come with Cataphracts. They are fully worth the expense & the wait to produce them. All other units from this point on are merely supporting troops. Give them all the experience & armor upgrades you can get & they will truly amaze you. Six to ten Cats are the core to a truly war winning army, just use them in mass. Group them in twos threes or more and attack spears from two directions. Even in city combat they will overpower any adversary with a massed charge of several units. They seldom rout & with eight or more & a few oagers you can take almost any city. A couple or three Armored Elephants are expellant fire support but not front line units so save them for the flanks & rear, especially in cities.

In a Seleucid army about half should be Cats. Infantry is there to protect the Onagers for assaulting cities with stone walls. War Elephants or Armored Elephants are there for braking walls & for fire support. They will shoot over walls while breaking them in fact, but if you find you are loosing Elephants you are using them wrong. A temple of Hephaestus in Antioch is also a good thing as it will give you a nice experaince & armor upgrade for these troops.

I have not played this faction sense the 1.2 patch so I don’t know what may have changed but I know that it is now too expensive to bribe units except in an emergency. I also think that that change has wrongfully changed some things which were common place in ancient wars. Bribes I think should also bring on more of the troops of exotic types into your army….but that belongs elsewhere. LOL

Well I finished it, after conquring Asia minor and then destroying Armenia and pushing Pathia to the other side of the Caspian, I took out Thrace and got the Macedonians to be my protectrate as they were besieged by the Romans. Scythia made a half arse attempt to attack me then also became my protectrate, I pushed the Bruttis out of Solona and Apollonia and then landed another army on Italy to take their home town in quick succesion, then I gave the 2 balkan city to the Macedonians letting them deal with the remaining former brutti rebels wondering around there while I sailed my army to reinforce Italy. and also making landings on Africa and Sicily to take undefended or almost undefended towns. the push north towards Rome was not hard as the Romans wasted their army, the Senate army faced me outside of Rome, but decided to retreat when I already closed on them, need less to say my elephant/catapracts/general/companion/chariots ran most of their infantry down. and Rome fell in a seige that followed, game over. (I had all my borders at home under my protectrate LOL)

Thoughts... pikeman have a lot of problems.... they behave in phalanx even more poorly than normal hoplits / sacred band / egyptian etc...) and their offense capability is very unnoticable when they die so quick..... any time I had serious enemy charging against me my pikeman took rather excess casulties while the kill score is not particularly impressive :/ i think the high men number acturally cause them to function even more oddly in phalanx and thus cuase them to do poorly in general... not to meantion their non existance melee capability means when they go out of phalanx they die even faster (unlike say.. spartan or scared band... they still pretty good even when not fighitng with phalanx working)

With pikes, you really have to do stacking cheese and put something like 4 units inside each other in long thin lines.

This makes the pike forest impenetrable. It's truly cheesy but effective. They rarely break. 3 silvershields inside each other cannot be broken even by urban cohorts.

Here's my take on the early game as Seleucids, based on my ongoing campaign on H/H difficulty:

Parthia can be neutralized suprisingly easy early on. You must keep an eye on Susa, the Parthian city east of Seleucia. Try to infiltrate it with your spy. They start out with an army in there, but often this army will move out to patrol/attack rebels etc. When you see them move, take your troops from Seleucia and move them near the province border, so that they can reach Susa (or retreat back to Seleucia) in 1 turn. If the Parthian army moves far enough that it can't reach Susa in 1 turn, attack the town! If you're lucky, your spy will open the gates and you can assault immediatly. If not, then you'll have 1 turn to build a ram and still can assault before their army gets to the rescue. Note that while the city will be underdefended, it might still have family members in it so be prepared for a tough fight.

You will then have to deal with the parthian starting army as it will attack you probably the next turn. It should be much easier to take them on the city streets when you're defending though, than it would be out in the desert. This early war with Parthia is a bold move and not without considerable risk, but if you manage to take Susa and beat their starting army, it will pay off. In my game which is now past the early stages, I did this pre-emptive strike against the Parthians and haven't heard a thing about them ever since, although we've been formally at war the whole time. They just never recovered from the loss of Susa enough to bolster a competent attack force.

Building stone walls should be a very high priority to most of your nothern and eastern settlements. Although your phalanx units should be kept on the street level, simply having the walls will greatly weaken a besieging army's ability to use missile fire against you. They'd need to either move inside your walls through gates or holes (easy to counter with phalanx) or get some foot archers on top of the walls (you should be able to stop them with mercenary infantry or even hoplites). When protected from missile fire and flanking, pikemen in phalanx formation will be nigh invincible.

You should hire plenty of mercenaries. The best types to hire are missile troops, since the Seleucids don't have any good long range missile units of their own. Cretan archers (available in your starting province Ionia), Bedouin archers (lots of your provinces, like Syria and Babylonia) and Scythian mercenaries (hire them in Cappadocia, the Pontus province right to the north of Cilicia & Assyria, you'll need to move a family member to the border) are very useful additions to the Seleucid's pikemen & cavalry heavy army. Another benefit to mercenaries is that you can raise a large army quickly, which will be needed to handle the greatest problem of early Seleucid games: Egypt.

You will want to take an aggressive stance on Egyptians, don't shy from attacking Sidon and Jerusalem as soon as you're able. But don't stop to catch your breath for long. When I took those cities, the Egyptians started throwing stack after stack of chariots, bowmen, spearmen and desert cavalry at me. So I did the "Scipio thing" and took the fight to their heartlands; I loaded a full stack army to my ships and set sails toward the river Nile. I found that of the 3 big cities there, only Alexandria was properly garrisoned. Thebes only had a family member and 1 unit of slingers, while Memphis had only a family member! So after I stormed Alexandria, the entire river Nile fell to me in a quick succession. This finally brought an end to the Egyptian's ability to muster massive armies quickly, but they were still a threat, so I sent multiple armies to take all of their remaining settlements.

What followed was lots of manouvering around the strategy map. Their strong armies would attack my invading armies, but I kept retreating and outright refused to give them fight in the desert. I had multiple armies approaching their towns from different directions, and while one of my armies was chased by the egyptian full stack, another one would attack the town and take it. They would then try to retake their cities but I was able to defend them as their chariots lost most of their mobility in the streets. In one of these many siege battles they had many bowmen and skirmishers, but used them to handle the battering rams, so I sent my militia cavalry out through side gates and charged the bowmen when they were packed into nice squares and busy operating the rams. I lost some militia cavalry to their chariots but eliminated so many bowmen and skirmishers that it was worth it. Without their missile troops they were helpless against my pikemen in the streets.

Eventually they lost every last one of their cities and were done as a faction. Now some decades later, there's still an old rebel general wandering the desert who is a very bitter man ~D

So the key to victory for me was to outmanouvre the enemy on the strategy map, always fight in cities and fight defensively when ever possible. I decided to be defensive against Pontus and Armenia, letting them attack Sardis, Tarsus and Hatra, always sallying out the first turn and driving them away. That way I didn't lose income to sieges and more importantly, my mercenary units didn't suffer from the reduction that sieges cause. The way to beat a sally battle against these factions was to put Cretan archer on my walls, sending skirmishing cavalry out through side gates and harass the enemy to chase them to the range of the cretans (or even better, all the way to the range of my wall towers). Eventually they'd got enough of it and begun to retreat at which point all of my cavalry led by my generals would sally out and kill as many of them as possible. The first stacks they sent were tough to beat, but after that they started using increasing numbers of eastern infantry so things became rather easy to me. They kept on sending a new force almost every turn, so they started running out of money and their populations started to suffer.

In my game I own the entire south-eastern corner of the map, from river Nile to Susa to Pergamum and have taken Rhodes, Kydonia, Sparta and Corinth. Pontus and Armenia are still attacking me almost every turn with about as much success as every turn before. I wanted to teach Pontics a lesson so I sent a small army to attack Nicomedia while it was left undefended. The town only had wooden walls and small population so I didn't even try to keep it, instead I gave it as a gift to Thrace. Now the Pontics lost a settlement and can't get it back without starting a war with Thrace ~:cool: I am in no hurry to end this admittedly tiresome war (unless they come begging for peace, and beg properly) for I am now having much more fun with my invasion army in Greece, the situation there has turned into a huge confusing Romans vs Macedon vs Greeks vs Seleucids struggle, with two Roman factions involved.

i found secluid quite hard because they are surrounded try and make as many allies as possible and try and build traders roads and ports in ever town or city
.dont attack people till you think ur strong enough block egypts path by armys and make forts round there entrances to ur provinces .egypt are not easy to beat but as secluid empior has the best of all troops u have a big chance dont go fro greece or parthia to begin with make allies with them always arminea are week if u hit them early so u can go for them i have won a short campaign with these but have not yet completed a long campaign .have fun. :duel: ~:)

Okay, I went back & played them again. I won’t discuss the strategy of when to take what but I will say that no one has a chance against these guys. The Cats are the most devastating units in the game. They can take on almost anything & very seldom brake. Armor upgrades do play a role in it all but they are crushing to just about anything. You just have to use them in mass. In the game last night I was sending 4 untried Cataphracts to reinforce a city threatened by the Romans. During the AIs turn I was attacked three times. Now there were only four units with no experience and only the first armor & weapons upgrades game play was M/M. The first army was just short of 800 men vs. my 209, I destroyed it totally & lost 13 men. The second army was over 850 with a family member in command. I let them chase me around until I got a good shot at the general, when I did I took it even though I got a couple of the formations pined for a time. After killing him the rest broke easy enough but I lost quite a few horsemen, around 70 I think. Then to my horror I was attacked again by a stack of around 590 with a strong general. I put the remaining force in kind of a box formation & charged, because of his Onagers… I cut through the Roman infantry & engaged their general. Needless to say he died & everyone was disheartened. I ran around the field braking any remaining units & moping up. When it was all over I still had 104 men left. They had only gained 5 chevrons between them all. Each had one & one had two. The second battle I did end when the enemy was all in retreat & didn’t peruse the last man, but just the same those 200 Cataphracts had defeated 10 times their number with about 50% losses.

I have watched a couple of times in horror when I saw them accidentally charge into the front of pikes & hoplites but the spear units brake like any other unit so long as there is a second Cataphract behind the first. My battle formations with them are usually an inverted wedge or a deep narrow formation abreast. If they are too spread out they loose their momentum quickly. With 8 or more units of them & 2 or 3 Onagers there is not a city that can’t be felled but as the Onagers are so slow, when ever I can, I assault a unit outside the city to draw the garrison in and then totally annulate the entire force, there by giving me the city anyway. I have not seen that the Camel Cataphracts are any better than the horsemen (Parthian) but if cost is the issue & you can build them, then Companion Cavalry makes an excellent second rank where they don’t take as many casualties. Elephants are nice toys and my help in taking town with wooden walls but generally much too expensive. Only one or two are necessary. I have taken cities outnumbered three to one with just the Onagers & Cats. If the garrison isn’t large enough, don’t worry, I sack all roman cities anyway just to quell rebellious tendencies.

Happy hunting! ~:cheers:

Oh, well they will brake if left to stand against spears so keep them moving ~D

My Asia Minor now has the richest collection of bone idle peasants "dispersed to the fields" thanks to my willingness to bribe rather than battle (especially on hard/hard at 3 in the morning). I'd quite like these lazy bastards to fight for me instead.

Now, I understand that if you bribe a unit you can't build (or can never build in the future) then it disperses rather than joins. But this doesn't seem to work with the Pontic or Armenian troops which seem pretty similar to the Seleuicid lot (presumably the Egyptians and their various weird troops are a lost cause?) Any ideas? Does one "un-buildable" unit in the stack stop you bribing any of it to come over to you?

no catallus, it happens that you can sometimes bribe let's say 3 troops ( total of 7troops in the stack you wish to bribe ) and 4 will join your stack, if you can train them, that is.

(M/M) The Seleucids have an very interesting line of Pro’s and cones.

Strong (pro);
- They are very, very rich.
- Wonder o Wonders (you start with 2, expansion with two others is very soon possible, the other 3 are aviable in the midgame).
- A strong start, mid en end game army.
- Your main foe’s have very vulnerable armies in the starting phase (except Egypt).
- Mercenaries. Since you fight in such a wide area you can use PLENTY of them and a quick war with descent/excellent units. Those units are also very adapted to the local warfare.

Weak (poor)
- 5 Enemies in the long run. Likely you will engage them early on.
- Egypt. Egypt is very rich, good one of the best armies, and no foe but you…..
- Your empire is not really ‘one’ you got 4 area’s that you should protect.

I said that you got 4 area’s. These are:
- West: Sardis.
- Central: Tarsu, Antioch and Damascus.
- North: Hatra
- East: Selucia

You have In each era likely an ‘own’ enemy:
West: Geek city states and likely Pontus.
Central: Egypt (and maybe Pontus).
North: Armenia
East: Parthia

Your main strategy consist of:
- Build, build build. Since you got a lot of money. Concentrate on the empire’s main things and their strategic area. Build a lot of troops and military.
- Make friends (alliance), generate time until the attack.
- Mercenaries. Money is your friend so use the troops for expansion and fighting.
- Strike hard, leave the fallen. This sometimes annoying quote of the game is in this game very very true. I other words: strike the main cities if possible.
- General: YOU SHOULD play al your battles yourself. Until you come into a face where you’re the grand superpower.

The 5 surrounding fractions al ask for an specific army strategy:
- Greek city states should be counter with the mercs. The great Cresian archers and … slingers. The merc hoplite is awesome in the starting stage.
- Pontus. Your normal army is fine.
- Parthia. Slingers/Peltasts/Bowman. Lots of cav or better chariots. And of course pikes to hold the line. Parthia units are not really impressive when they have to break any line on offence.
- Armenia. Normal army is fine here. Only cav (especially the desert merc cav) is very useful here.
- Egypte. Very very annoying faction. They got very strong armies so bring the best. Against chariots use a combo of shooting/throwing and peltasts and pike’s. The Peltasts got a bonus against those annoying chariots.



Well, what did I do (en recommend you!)

Initial fase. Build. In the WEST take the rebel settlement Halicarnassus ASP. Use mercs (the great available mercs here) for this. After this expansion retain ect. I shipped my troops (bought more mercs) to Rodus. After capturering Rodus send your troops ASP to Pergamum. Well if you succeed the 3 very hard battles you made an great Eastern empire. The Greek city states will be lost likely or are stuck in Sparta. While you have no less than 3 wonders. And more over 3 very rich cities and one rich city.


Centre. Build to your own mind. Make sure you can build Elephants ASP. Troop building is a property. War with the strong Egyptians is coming your way. When you see the Egyptians attempting to attack you: STRIKE first. E.G. take Sidon. This will hurt their ability to make war strongly, afterwards on to Jerusalem.


North. Minimize your attention to Hatra. Build strongly but this settlement is here to ‘hold’ the line. The Armenians are going to attack here. Lucky there lack numerous and good troops.

East. Try to take the Dumatha rebel town with mainly mercs, in this avoiding that it becomes a Parthia settlement, maximize growth here. The annoying Parhians are heading your way. Buid lots of chariots and any unit that can shoot/throw or sling. Make sure you win the defence game first and strike to their city Susa. This will cripple their economy. When secured here you can attack Arsakia and finaly Phraaspa. Also build some ships here and take Salamis (on Cyprus) and later Kydonia (on Crete).

So this is initial. Your mid game Probably consist of:
WEST a grand fight with Pontus (which will be heading your way likely) You should take the former rebel town’s (Ancyra and Nicomedia) and then finishing their core cities.

North. Your battling still the annoying Armenians. You could finish them with an large strike.

East. Your bussy capering the two towns. If possible finish the Parthia’s of. Still this isn’t obligated.

So after finishing (most) of your enemies. You should have killed Pontus, Armenia and Egypte. Likely the greek city states are gone and Parthia also. You now own (circa) 25 very very rich provinces and SIX wonders. Go trough Africa to Carthage and send an and fleet with army to Sicilia to make war and cripple the Brutti. Taking Greece or Italy head on depends on the situation. Remember to win the game is to take (also) Rome , some war with the Roman empire is necessary.


Ps1: Fleets Should be used intensely or be saved to the end game. I disreccomend focussing on them since you have to use every starting province intensively keeping the enemy of bay.
Ps2: Don’t let the Armenians, Pontus and Parthia life too long. Their techtree is a later stage of the game very good.
Ps3: Forget bribing as an good way to win the game when your playing with 1.2. Only when your reach about 18-25 provinces your rich enough to use this. And only in a way that helps a little.

It is true the Seleucids have one of the most interesting choice of troops. But elephants, chariots, cataphracts, silver shield pikemen and silver shield legions are not really needed to win an imperial campaign, at least not on M/M. We might want to use these crack troops just for the fun of seeing them in action (being on the giving end of a chariot charge makes me feel good :-))

The Seleucids already have 3 very powerful "weapons" early in the game, before getting access to these super-units:

1. Money
The Seleucids make so much money than they can probably win the campaign without having to fight a single battle. For instance, Halicarnassus can be conquered by bribing the large rebel army outside its walls, which results in keeping the hoplite militia, then bribing the city garrison and moving the newly acquiered hoplites in the city, to prevent revolts. Sidon and Jerusalem fall in a similar way - bribe the rather large Egyptian armies in the area (get one family member in the process) and then bribe the garrisons and move some of our troops in. As a Romanian saying goes, "a golden borer makes holes in any city wall". The same with Pergamum, with the added benefit of keeping the hoplite militia and the family member. I think the ideal Seleucid invasion army is made of a general travelling together with a spy (for avoiding ambushes), an assasin (for added protection) and a diplomat. The diplomat bribes the garrison and the general occupies it with the mercenaries recruited on the spot. I'm currently sending such an army from Antiochia, to invade the British isles. I'll let you know if this really works. If it does, the Senate is in for a big surprise!

2. Temples of Hephestus
They improve the weapons and armor. Combining it with the blacksmit family of buildings results in having troops with extremly good stats very early in the game.

3. Militia cavalry and peltasts
Well, this is like playing a Numidian campaign, but with stronger units (due to the combination temple of Hephestus + blacksmith/armourer/foundry and slightly better stats of the militia cavalry).

The Numidians don't have the money to afford weapon&armour enhancing buildings early on and their starting cities grow too slow. The Seleucids don't have these problems. They control the Hanging Gardens, which means their farms produce lots of food, which helps population grow. They can further boost the population growth by enslaving. Asia Minor is full of cities close to each other, presenting the conqueror/slave trader with plenty of opportunities early on. Since they have the money needed to bribe other factions' family members, Seleucids can have a governor in each of their cities. This means slave convoys will travel to the remotest corner of the empire. And a horde of militia cavalry, crushing one enemy army after another can turn captains into generals as quickly as this happens in the Numidian games (where roughly 20% of the family members I have are brave captains who rose through the ranks).

Please note that bribing is no longer a logical option thanks to the sky high (too high :dizzy2: ) bribing cost of Rome 1.2

Nonetheless, your money can be used well on mad building rush and mercenary rush.

Seleucids have access, or soon-to-have-access to the mercenary pools of Syria, Aegean, Thrace, Galatia, Armenia, Persia, Arabia, Cilicia, Egypt...

That means...

Seleucid early game possible access to mercenary units:
-tons of east infantry; Armenian, Syrian, Persian; meat shield, populater (very useful in Asia Minor 500 pop "cities" if you're ready to pay for it).
-barb inf; Galatia; a slightly better counterparts of east inf, with the same purpose - note that Galatian barb inf provides a good unit as it comes with 2 exp
-horse archers/camel archers; Armenian, Syrian, and Arabian; all for the Seleucid rain of death...on Ramses' chariots - note that a bug must be fixed if there will be horse archers in Armenia.
-arab cavalry; Syrian, Arabian; nice light cavalry.
-sarmatian cavalry; Armenian; superb heavy cavalry early game
-barbarian cavalry; Galatian; superb light cavalry - useful to add to the Greek-based merc army in the west.
-peltasts; Thracian, Aegean-ian, Syrian; multi-purpose skirmishers..flank guard, first line, reserve, etc.
-hoplite; Aegean, Thracian; you know what to do with the core of your line...
-cretan archers; Aegean; the finest archer unit available for Greeks and Easterners...
-thracian mercs; Thrace; deadly flanker - perfect for one-two hoplite-thracian
-bastarnae; Thrace; they're just the thracian elite...battles can be won by them.
-elephant mercs; Syria; rare, deadly, cool, superb, war-winning tanks of the ancient world.
-cilician pirates; Cilicia; with that horde formation, they are of little use... nice stats skirmisher though.
-libyan inf; Egypt, Syria?; light, swift, nice skirmishers. No peltasts' standing power but more agile and at least as deadly.
-illyrian; Thrace?; may be they're there or I'm confused, anyway, beefed up peltasts ready for service.
-rhodian slinger; Aegean; another fine ranged unit - they are better against chariot than cretans.

Choose some of them and notice that an all-merc army can be balanced to the finest.

Pool provincial cities:
Syria - Antioch, Hatra, Seleucia, Damascus, Sidon, Jerusalem
Egypt - Alexandria, Memphis, Thebes
Arabia - Palmyra, Bostra, Petra, Dumatha?
Persia - Susa, Arsakia, Phraaspa?
Galatia - Ancyra
Cilicia - Tarsus, Salamis
Aegean - Sardis, Halicarnassus, Rhodes, Pergamum, Kydonia
Thrace - Nicomedia, Byzantium, Tylis, and another Thracian city on the border of Scythia
Armenia - Artaxarta, Sinope, Mazaka, Kotais

The steppes aren't far away either, just land on Chersonesus (Bosporus) and take it if the Scythian didn't. The various Greek pools on the Balkans are also pretty near, so as the Libyan pool.

So use your money on mercs!

My analysis on Selucid's enemies (really by the time you kill them you are invincible the rest aren't a problem at all)

Pathia: an overrated enemy, unless they kill the Armenian or make serious advance against you, they will be so dirt poor after a few turns they'll never be able to mount anything serious against you as long as you keep a realatively strong garrison in Selucia.

Armenia: they are richer than the Pathian so they will come after you, Hatra will face quiet a fight, but on the bright side, as long as you mass milita hoplits they'll have a very hard time winning in a seige unless they manage to obtain their lvl 3/4 infantreis, even worse if u manage to get a stone wall up.

Greeks: they are generally not a big threat, however they are also rich bastards so you'll be surprised what they can pop up with someimes (they can hire tons of merc and bang on you too.) on the bright side their lands are VERY worth taking. which includes the magical statue of Rhodes.

Egypt: your number 1 problem. they are rich, they are powerful, they have matching troops to ur own. and they will come after you ASAP. you will need to deal with them fast, it may be a good idea to seek diplomatic solutions such as protectrate to seek a fast end though.

Pontus: in many sense they may be a bigger threat then Egypt, they are in the best position to take Asia minor, and they directly threatening two of ur least developed but potentially richest cities (Sardis and Tarsus) the fast high moral javlin calvaries are also a major threat to ur crap armored phalanx and inferior javlin cav. They are also harder to take the fight to unlike Egypt.

I think the biggest problem in the early game is egypt, they are the only faction rich enough to keep sending a steady stream of armies, the other eastern factions can be dealt with rather easily.

Funny thing happened in my current seleucid game, in the first couple of turns i managed to get egypt to give Jeruselam to me in exchange for a map and some regular tribute, needless to say this weakened them considerably and have been easy to deal with, i took sidon as soon as they declared war and now they have to march all the way across the nile to get to me. :)

I didn't think so, but it is possible to take the city with the mausoleum wonder from the rebels on turn one with only your general and 2 units of milia hoplites against multiple higher quality enemy hoplites, cretan archers, rhodian slingers, and skirmishers.

http://img104.echo.cx/img104/1736/00027fo.th.jpg

When you seige the city on turn one, the rebels will sally forth immediately to crush your pathetic force. They almost certainly would defeat you in an open field, but in this case because they are sallying from a city you have the advantage - if you move fast.
When battle begins, immediately rush all your troops up to the gate, leaving a little space between the gate and your units to allow the enemy to come out one unit at a time. One unit of enemy skirmishers should be in the process of getting out of the gate when your general arrives at a gallop, so immediately rush and route it with your bodyguards before it can form up. Then set one unit of hoplites directly facing the gate, and the other on it's flank but turned inwards towards to gate to form half a cup. That way any unit coming out from the gate will have to face one solid line of spears in front and another on its flank. Place your general to the other side of the cup thus completing the encirclement of the gate. Now the fun part begins - the enemy will stream its units out one after the other, which you can then engage with your hoplites and a little while later charge into the back with your general to route them. Rinse and repeat, and the city is yours!

However, if you are tardy in the begining and allow 2 or more enemy units to form outside the gate, defeat is almost certain as your troops are of lower quality and greatly outnumbered.

Right - finished it on H/H and truly knackered in work today!

The Cyprus story is a fine tale of the AI being stupid (or possibly being a very brave and smart gambler)

Act 1 Western Asia secured with big army in Sardis to counter invasions. Slogging up through Pontus. Containing Armenia and Parthia. Loads of trade; loads of dosh.

Meanwhile real fun is going on in Egypt - Alexandria taken and spending ages manoeuvering against their field army - everyone in and out of armed camps etc.

To pile the pressure on, I go for Cyprus. Spy first followed by good sized expeditionary force of mixed inf and peltasts. Somehow spy misses (or AI lands by ship?) a vast army of cav which slams into my beachhead and basically throws it back into the sea...not happy and too many troops committed in northern battles to get another invasion force together any time soon.

Act 2 Siege at Memphis. Egyptian counter attack. Win v cool defensive battle in woods and Memphis falls, shortly followed by Thebes*.

Which just leaves Cyprus to finish off the Egyptians and win. I pretty much have control of the eastern Med by now and the army on Cyprus (as reported by the Spy) has apparently thinned out - presumably because the Egyptians are now seriously short of readies and the computer is cutting back (is this right? does the computer start cutting units if the moolah runs out? Or does it run up overdrafts?).

However, I'm still heavily committed to the North, especially after a very bloody and close (and lucky) win to finish off Pontus, so another invasion is several turns off while I build up or concentrate enough troops. Not least getting a decent general back there for a triumphant last victory (and not one of the beardless princelings hanging around Antioch and the "home counties").

In the meantime, just for the hell of it since I've got a fleet hanging about, I blockade Salamis port.

At the opening of the next turn an Egyptian bireme has turned up off Salamis, and I duly send part of the blockading fleet around to wallop it. On arrival, however, it appears the whole remaining Salamis army is loaded on this one crappy bireme which is duly sent to the bottom in a 3 ship skirmish. End of game...


Now, I would read this in one of 2 ways: either the AI is very, very stupid to concentrate all its remaining forces on one ship with a fleet nearby, OR it has depths of cunning and boldness which are quite scary....

Why, you ask? Because it may have taken the pretty complex strategic decision that Salamis was now indefensible and the only way to stay in the game was to load the remaining army onto a ship and try to grab a new base. A desperate gamble, certainly, but one that you can imagine a human opponent trying as a last throw of the dice. I would have expected the AI to sit there stupidly and wait for the inevitable.

Any other instances of alarming cleverness by the AI? - or did it just do something random and stupid?




*Taking Thebes I finally found a use for those bloody scythed chariots - when attacking a city without walls, stick the nasty dangerous buggers round the opposite side of the city and have them launch an opening strike as you advance the main force from the front. The chariots get miles into the rear of the enemy in the centre of town before they (spectacularly) lose the plot. Within a few seconds most are profoundly dead, taking dozens of enemies with them. If any of the loonies do survive they seem to rout back the way they came - ie away from your own army thereby avoiding the usual "blue on blue" carnage when you use the damned things.

Better tip: don't build them in the first place....

:duel: ok got the lot on h/h - parthians back behind caspian; armenia and pontus dead; greeks gone and i picked up rhodes in the wreckage;150k in the bank, ss pikemen queing up to do africa and could probably bash anyone now - any suggestions on who to play next ??

Egypt are quite fun..
Or Britannia?
Or another challenge is the Gaul.. or Numidia.