Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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Originally Posted by PanzerJager
If we have to resort to expending innocent unborn life to prolong the life of someone who has already experienced this, what does that say about us?
Those fetusses are not expendable human life, they are soon to be dead cells from abortion clinics we are re-using for research to heal people.
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The devaluation of life leads to a culture of death that can seriously alter the basic precepts of humanity. Is it worth it?
Was the Iraq war worth it? The reason I bring this is that 100,000 people have been killed in Iraq since the invasion and that is more stem cells than we would ever need for a thousand years. Why is that not a culture of war? You being a Bush supporter have to answer this.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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Was the Iraq war worth it? The reason I bring this is that 100,000 people have been killed in Iraq since the invasion and that is more stem cells than we would ever need for a thousand years. Why is that not a culture of war? You being a Bush supporter have to answer this.
What the hell? And where did you get that statistic? (If it's correct, bear in mind that I don't have a "death toll counter" on my desktop.) And none of those stem cells would be embryonic. I thought that the only "good" stem cells were ones that came from dead babies.
And you being Byzantine Prince have to answer this. :dizzy2:
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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If it doesn't think, and it isn't sentient, then it isn't really human life, is it? Killing a human embryo that doesn't think or know that it exists for research is like killing a chicken for food. It's essential.
A newborn baby doesnt think or know it exists either. And how is it essential now that we do this research? Humanity has gotten along for thousands of years without it.
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Those fetusses are not expendable human life, they are soon to be dead cells from abortion clinics we are re-using for research to heal people.
And that is why abortion should be banned.
Was the Iraq war worth it? The reason I bring this is that 100,000 people have been killed in Iraq since the invasion and that is more stem cells than we would ever need for a thousand years. Why is that not a culture of war? You being a Bush supporter have to answer this.
Bring your numbers to at least a reasonable estimation and Ill give you an answer.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Those fetusses are not expendable human life, they are soon to be dead cells from abortion clinics we are re-using for research to heal people.
Was the Iraq war worth it? The reason I bring this is that 100,000 people have been killed in Iraq since the invasion and that is more stem cells than we would ever need for a thousand years. Why is that not a culture of war? You being a Bush supporter have to answer this.
Well Byzantine Prince using your logic that you just displayed here - over 100,000 babies are aborted each year - more then enough stem cells available for a thousand years are available each and every year by the death of babies - killed by the liberial culture of death.
Now respond to that - since you are a supporter of the culture of death that is the abortion advocates.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
Amazing how this turns into an abortion thread...
And abortion creates a culture of life not death, life for would be mothers who would otherwise be restricted forever because of an unwanted child. Life for all children as we know that children will be born into families which want them. The problem with abortion is not that it is carried out, but that the information on the reality isn't out there enough so people who really don't want the would be child feel they have no choice but to have the baby, creating hell on earth in a lot of cases for both the baby and the mother. We have a thread on the boards about a family where the mother had three children by different partners and then her children had a child of their own at the age of 16, 14 and 12 respectively. Now if you think the right information about abortion - that it isn't killing any human before 24 weeks and that it is an easy procedure - was given and the original mother knew the facts we would now have this very problematic situation? I don't. It is anti abortionists who create a life of slavery and problems.
The vast, vast majority of child abuse and violence comes from unhappy households, anti abortionists create it, well at least help create it. A culture of real life, of happiness and contentment is created by getting the facts right and information out about abortion. Anyway it is those who are most passionately opposed to abortion which are equally as passionately for the death penalty. Culture of death? Oh don't be so hypocritical.
As for the original purpose of the thread, I find it silly because I can't see the point. If there was a point to it other than playing God, then I wouldn't have a problem as such.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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Originally Posted by JAG
Amazing how this turns into an abortion thread...
And abortion creates a culture of life not death, life for would be mothers who would otherwise be restricted forever because of an unwanted child. Life for all children as we know that children will be born into families which want them. The problem with abortion is not that it is carried out, but that the information on the reality isn't out there enough so people who really don't want the would be child feel they have no choice but to have the baby, creating hell on earth in a lot of cases for both the baby and the mother. We have a thread on the boards about a family where the mother had three children by different partners and then her children had a child of their own at the age of 16, 14 and 12 respectively. Now if you think the right information about abortion - that it isn't killing any human before 24 weeks and that it is an easy procedure - was given and the original mother knew the facts we would now have this very problematic situation? I don't. It is anti abortionists who create a life of slavery and problems.
The vast, vast majority of child abuse and violence comes from unhappy households, anti abortionists create it, well at least help create it. A culture of real life, of happiness and contentment is created by getting the facts right and information out about abortion. Anyway it is those who are most passionately opposed to abortion which are equally as passionately for the death penalty. Culture of death? Oh don't be so hypocritical.
As for the original purpose of the thread, I find it silly because I can't see the point. If there was a point to it other than playing God, then I wouldn't have a problem as such.
And you are also very hypocritical in this Jag supporting abortion but against the death penelty. Besides if you actually read what I had written - you would of discovered it was in direct response to BP failed logic in his comments. However you have shown again how hypocritical both postions truely are. One can not support the death pently and be against abortion - without being a hypocrit, same for those who are for abortion but against the death pently - both sides are hypocrits on the issue.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
No... Because one is killing a human and the other is getting rid of a group of cells like removing a tumour. The fact that a fetus could be a human and if left will be a human does not stop the fact that at the point of getting rid of the cells it is not anything like a human. Not hypocritical at all.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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Originally Posted by JAG
No... Because one is killing a human and the other is getting rid of a group of cells like removing a tumour. The fact that a fetus could be a human and if left will be a human does not stop the fact that at the point of getting rid of the cells it is not anything like a human. Not hypocritical at all.
Yep - I figured you will try to justify the removing of life from the womb with such an answer. At least with my support of the death pently for convicted murders - I understand that its taking a life for their own actions - however it seems that you have once again shown the hypocrisy of the abortion stance - by calling a fetus nothing but a group of cells. Most hypocrits can not see their own hypocrisy on an issue - at least I understand mine on the issue on abortion and the death pently - but go ahead and continue to justify human actions by pretending that the grouping of cells in the womb is not life. Remember at one time you were nothing but this group of cells that you so cavliar decide is okay to remove from the womb.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
A minor note:
Embryonal stem cells comes from "artificial pregnacies" (don't know the English word). They often get several embryo(es?) and all isn't good enough to develop to a child or you'll end up with too many functional embryoes (=possible triplings or even more).
These cells can only be gotten while the embryo is less than 14 days. I suspect that very few abortions is made during this time. ~;)
Thus abortion has very little to do with it.
And for you 100% pro-lifer's. If you would get 7 viable embryoes, when the mother only wants one child (well maybe two), what would you do?
1. Put all in? That would cartainly kill a few babies (yes babies as they would die quite late in the pregnancy).
2. Put in as many as she want's? That would kill of the remaining embryoes, but at the embryo stage.
3. Refuse to do the process? That wouldn't kill anything in the practical sence. But without performing the process, a baby is never borned. Is that pro-life?
I won't comment on the mother but you can guess the best alternative for her. ~;)
So are you willing to kill several embryoes to get one baby? Or to kill several babies for several babies? Or you won't kill anything, but then a baby will never be born.
If life comes from death will you allow it, or will you prevent it from ever existing?
And is a baby 100% equal to an embryo?
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
The solution is obvious- the parents should adopt a child. There are many children looking to be adopted even today and if we stopped killing them because they're an inconvenience we'd have even more.
Re: Does anybody else find this to be creepy?
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Originally Posted by Xiahou
The solution is obvious- the parents should adopt a child. There are many children looking to be adopted even today and if we stopped killing them because they're an inconvenience we'd have even more.
Nice way to avoid the question. ~;)
And it would actually work in theory, would only make about a 60% increase of the number of adoptions (Sweden would have a 200% increase by compairation, we don't use either method as othen appearently).
But you got a huge number of children in foster cares over there ~:eek: (about 500k).
But to be evil, adoption isn't an option in this case. :evil:
But I can guess you can put it as alternative 3 if you want though.
