Is John McCain being groomed to run for President

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So, McCain and the others actually did something useful. I'm not terribly thrilled with the man overall because he supported Bush... after being defamed by him in 2000, and after Bush's various nods to torture and extra-legal imprisonment. A man who spent years being tortured by the North Vietnamese should really be more outspoken against his own government employing similar methods. Still, sucking up to your party's leader is expected if you're going to being running for the top job yourself down the road.

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Maybe he understands the difference between what the raving leftists are whining about and real torture. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Aurelian

Also, let's remember that he fathered an illegitimate black baby, and that he's too unstable from his POW experiences to be president. Of course, he didn't REALLY father an illegitimate black baby, and he's not REALLY crazy, but that's the way the radcon smear merchants went after him in 2000... so it's a good bet that we'd see the same charges or worse if he ran again. Maybe in 2008 we'll 'find out' that he had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam, or that he passed nuclear secrets to the Vietnamese. Maybe we'll get to see commercials sponsored by the "Hanoi Hilton Veterans for the Truth". That would be fun.

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He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man.

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If McCain did get through the primary process, I think he might have a decent shot at winning the general election. There are enough moderates and moderate Democrats that like him that he might be able to seize the middle. The far right base might not be as pumped as usual, but who would they vote for? Hillary? I don't think so. From a Republican standpoint, at least McCain is pro-life and pro-war. Just think, unlike Bush, he actually could be a uniter, not a divider.

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First decent thing I have ever seen you write about any Republican - so way the venom in the first paragraph.

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So, McCain and the others actually did something useful. I'm not terribly thrilled with the man overall because he supported Bush... after being defamed by him in 2000, and after Bush's various nods to torture and extra-legal imprisonment. A man who spent years being tortured by the North Vietnamese should really be more outspoken against his own government employing similar methods. Still, sucking up to your party's leader is expected if you're going to being running for the top job yourself down the road.

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Given that alot of the presidential race is determined by media profile... what is Paris Hiltons chance of winning when she turns 40?

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Given that alot of the presidential race is determined by media profile... what is Paris Hiltons chance of winning when she turns 40?

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It's 35...

~:eek:

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Originally Posted by Redleg

He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man.


First decent thing I have ever seen you write about any Republican - so way the venom in the first paragraph.

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I got the impression the venom was directed at the Republican system, and how it uses venom on people, rather than McCain. Sarcastically coming out with everything he expects the republicans to come out with as such.

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Originally Posted by dgb

I got the impression the venom was directed at the Republican system, and how it uses venom on people, rather than McCain. Sarcastically coming out with everything he expects the republicans to come out with as such.

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Which makes him just as guilty of doing what he accuses the Republican Party of doing.

like I have stated - if McCain runs I will vote for him, unless a better moderate is also in the race.

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Also, let's remember that he fathered an illegitimate black baby, and that he's too unstable from his POW experiences to be president. Of course, he didn't REALLY father an illegitimate black baby, and he's not REALLY crazy, but that's the way the radcon smear merchants went after him in 2000... so it's a good bet that we'd see the same charges or worse if he ran again. Maybe in 2008 we'll 'find out' that he had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam, or that he passed nuclear secrets to the Vietnamese. Maybe we'll get to see commercials sponsored by the "Hanoi Hilton Veterans for the Truth". That would be fun. - QUOTING MYSELF

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He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man. - QUOTING REDLEG

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No, I wasn't smearing McCain. I was simply pointing out that some of the same people involved with the "Swift Boat" attack campaign went after McCain using the 'illegitimate black baby' and 'crazy POW' charges. The charges were vile madeup crap, and I'd fully expect them to come after him with some other vile madeup crap if he ran again. That wing of the party doesn't want McCain to be president, so they'd go after him the same way they went after him in 2000, and Kerry in 2004. By "that would be fun", I meant fun in the same way that a root canal is fun, i.e. not fun.

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First decent thing I have ever seen you write about any Republican - so way the venom in the first paragraph.

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I also like Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and my grandparents. ~D

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Maybe he understands the difference between what the raving leftists are whining about and real torture. :bow:

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Actually those accusations of torture is comprehensive with what's classified as torture for other countries.

If that isn't torture, then many dictorships havn't performed torture. :dizzy2:

Its easy to level accusations when youve been trained to do it. ~;)

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Its easy to level accusations when youve been trained to do it. ~;)

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Yes, I choosed that word to include everything. That also includes convictions and leaked documents on "convincing" policy, for example. Most of it is on a Abu Ghraib level though.

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The IACHR has received allegations of torture and other physical mistreatment of both political and non-political prisoners. Among the methods of torture cited were beatings with fists and rubber hoses, electrical shocks to sensitive parts of the body, simulated executions, and sexual abuse in the case of female prisoners.

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. . . "blows with a rubber hose; first blows to stomach and chest,"

. . . "long questioning under strong lights without sleep,"

. . . "electric shocks to the vital parts of the body, the ears, genital organs and the anus" that made him feel his insides were bursting,

. . . "hanging by the wrists and acted out executions with blank cartridges" so that each time he did not know whether he was alive or dead.

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Sound familiar? ~;)

Although I haven't red anything about faked executions in any US case (but I havn't studied very careful either).

REPORT ON THE SITUATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN PANAMA, from 1978

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Unlike the mass detentions followed by beatings and other mistreatment intended to intimidate and punish, but stopping short of killing, a considerable number of individuals have been arrested and subjected to more systematic forms of torture in the offices of the Defense Forces Intelligence–G-2–and in those of the security forces as DENI (National Investigations Department). The Commission has accounts of the use of electric shock on various parts of the body, including the genitals, of people hung by their wrists, the use of masks, the removal of all their clothing, prolonged sleep deprivation, being kept in handcuffs or bound for long periods of time, cold showers in cold rooms, and solitary confinement.

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Another example of arbitrary arrest is the case of Alberto Conte, who was held for 94 days without trial or charges and denied his right of defense. Finally, after he declared voluntary departure, Mr. Conte was deported.3

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These ones is from 1989, when Noriega was ruling...
REPORT ON THE SITUATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN PANAMA 1989

Unsubstantiated, unproven, allegations.

The only proof I have seen comes via Abu Garib, and I wouldnt consider 99% of that stuff torture.. more like an interrogative hazing. But nonetheless, those people have or are being punished.

If I had an axe to grind against you I could sit here and claim you kicked my dog. If I had been trained what to say beforehand, im sure i could provide some pretty graphic and convincing details of the bruising and loss of hair you caused my dog. That doesnt make it so. :bow:

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more like an interrogative hazing

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AFAIK some people died of this "hazing"...

And congratulations of proving my point better than what I could ever do. ~;)

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

The only proof I have seen comes via Abu Garib, and I wouldnt consider 99% of that stuff torture.. more like an interrogative hazing.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Actually those accusations of torture is comprehensive with what's classified as torture for other countries.
If that isn't torture, then many dictorships havn't performed torture.

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those people have or are being punished.

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Yes luckily does the US military atleast try to uphold a democratic (=high) standard when it comes to HR.

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If I had an axe to grind against you I could sit here and claim you kicked my dog. If I had been trained what to say beforehand, im sure i could provide some pretty graphic and convincing details of the bruising and loss of hair you caused my dog. That doesnt make it so.

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That's why you investigate those charges. To see if they stick.

I hear that McCain "had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam"



McCain is his own refutation. He will never make it through the Primary Process even with the open field for 2008.

Thread necromancy!

Interesting...thanks Lemur.

btw, if it came between Obama and McCain, who'd you vote for?

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Originally Posted by Pindar

I hear that McCain "had a gay relationship with a cell-mate in 'Nam"



McCain is his own refutation. He will never make it through the Primary Process even with the open field for 2008.

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Funny ~D

Congrats to Redleg the Sage.

I think it is hilarious the Republicans have selected a nominee that JAG apparently likes. McCarthy must be rolling in his grave.

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Originally Posted by Fenring

btw, if it came between Obama and McCain, who'd you vote for?

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Man, I'd be torn. Ask me again in November. Right now I'm feeling pretty good -- of the three remaining contenders, only one makes me break out in hives. So long as she isn't in the final mix, I'm gonna be happy.

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He doesn't need any right wing Republicans smearing him, when the left-wing like yourself does a rant like this about the man.

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
A classic Redleg once again , I knew you hadn't lost the lost it touch:2thumbsup:

Anyway McCain may be too old , but at least he isn't Clinton , she is a lunatic .

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Thread necromancy!

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Must be nice to be able to search the backroom. I've often wanted to be able to dredge up people's past comments.... :shame:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

The most horriffic thing I could imagine would be a race between him and Hillary.... I think I'd have no choice that I could live with other than voting 3rd party.

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How prophetic. Clearly the words of a wise man. I'd also like to pat myself on the back for 3yrs of consistent disdain for McCain. :beam:

Senators have a track record of making bad presidential candidates. What did we do to end up with 3 of them as our only choices? :wall:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Must be nice to be able to search the backroom. I've often wanted to be able to dredge up people's past comments....

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I was just reading some of the oldest threads still cached, seeing what we were yammering about in 2005. If you're unclear on how to do this, just check the bottom of the Backroom screen, where you can choose what age of threads to display. If that's too vague, just PM me, and I'll walk you through it.

That was on the last page? Huh, well that was propitious....

Second or third from last, if I remember correctly. I was poking around, seeing if there was anything at all that could be related to what's going on now. I was in the mood for necromancy ... but aren't we all?

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Second or third from last, if I remember correctly. I was poking around, seeing if there was anything at all that could be related to what's going on now. I was in the mood for necromancy ... but aren't we all?

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Yes.
https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/...romancyiy6.jpg
Carry on then. :bow:

Nice job, Redleg.

I was about to say this belongs in the convention thread, but i realized it's from about 3 years ago. 3 years ago... wow, quite a long time ago.

One thing becomes obvious when you click through 2005 -- we went completely poll crazy for a while. Pages and pages of polls ...

For some reason I believe that the backroom was more active back then, but by comparing the 'last post' dates I am not so certain anylonger..

Woah, thought I hadn't seen this before, clicked to open the first post and then thought BP was back etc until I looked at the post dates somewhere on page 2. :dizzy2:

I guess by now we all hope that Obama and Huckabee win, right? :sweatdrop:

You don't groom a 71 year old for anything. You buy them a toupee.

Interesting post by me all that time ago - blimey 2005!!! ;) - and I guess what I said still holds true, though the more you find out about the guy and the changing political problems of the present, the less it rings true.

Back then it was looking at radical right wing Presidents - or at least Presidential nominees, from the Republicans - or looking at something less radical in the form of McCain, and in a contest between Bush and McCain, I know who I would vote for. But in the present political context, with Iraq so important and with the possibility of the social situation in the States as well as the general political direction, moving to the left - I don't think I would contemplate voting McCain for more than a few seconds. Though after all it is all irrelevant as I can't and probably never will, have the opportunity to vote in the US Presidential election! :clown: