Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
~:) lol, don't sit on the fence now lars573!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
~:) lol, don't sit on the fence now lars573!!
rtr - the best mod until now
had a few bugs but v 6 is almost out so...
dont agree with 6.0's legionaries, round shields?????blah!!!
Round shields? Yuck. As a small "c" conservative, one thing I was pleasantly surprised about RTR is how much of the vanilla game it retains. For the Romans at least, most of the buildings and units in RTR 5.4 are very familiar. It really is RTW as it should have been. I very much admired the MedMod for MTW but lost interest once it rewrote every unit from the ground up and became unplayable without learning a new set of (not necessarily better) unit stats and tech trees[1]. I was disappointed to learn that 6.0 will be dropping the Senate, as I thought that was one of the big improvements of RTW over MTW - sort of a development of the Glorious Achievements. It gives some direction and rewards to the Roman player, making the single player game more fun IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16
[1]I may be persuaded by EB, whose unit previews look glorious.
1. they are historically correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16
2.they look really cool.
3.you won't be dissapointed.
Round (or better said round edged) shields, were used by all pre-marian units as well as early after marian units (early cohort).
If you don't like it, you could probably download another model and use that instead. Legionaires had different looks at different periods.
Though I agree, the bodyshield looks > all shields.
RTR is better than just playing rome,
But even with it rome does not appeal to me compared to the other TW games
Just had a battle between a full stack of Romans and one of Gauls. In vanilla, this would have been a cakewalk, but here it was touch and go with more than 1000 dead on each side! Reminded me of some of those brutal MTW battles.
Cavalry might have been weakened a little too much, though. I had a unit of peltasts charged by the Companions guarding a Macedonian general and they won.
I haven't encountered this before, but, in RTW, it seems, the AI really LOVES scorpions and ballistae... Playing Romans, I have encountered numerous Greek armies filled with scorpions, ballistae and onagers... I have not seen this happen on vanilla. Something must be messed up about the building priorities for these... :(
I heard that build priorities cannot be modified. But I also heard that RTR v6.0 is taking out onagers. I wonder if they will extend it to allow field artillery? I cannot recall hearing that they figured in ancient field battles. In sieges, yes, but then in RTW you don't really need siege artillery.
What? No more batterries of 10 onagers? GAH!
In RTR (even more so in SPQR) the base defense rating of many units has been bumped way up compared to the vanilla version of the game. I was wondering, given that certain tactical situations should produce defense/attack bonuses/penalties (height advantage, attacking in the rear, flanking, etc.), the ultra high base defense rating of the mod units should make these tactical considerations negligible (as long as they are fixed +/- defense/attack numbers)... Example: -4 to defense for being attacked from the rear would have much less of an impact on a unit that has 40 defense than one thas has 10 defense... (10% versus 40% loss) of course, with the ultra-high base stats, effects of armorers and experience become negligible too...
well thank for the input Lars :)
as for installing the mod...I have a question about RTR...i want to install it and play it (and am at the official site now) but I'm a little hazy on one issue: How exactly do I do this? Do i have to install RTR1.0, then RTR2.0 etc etc or can I just download and install the latest patch of rtr?
although the mod and the website look fantastic, they fail to explain this anywhere...and it's needed.
never mind...i see now, i have to start with 5.2 and go from there...sorry about that
Interesting point. I don't think anyone outside of CA knows the formula for how the combat stats affect kill probabilities. Apparently, they are very different from STW and MTW, but in those games stats had a proportionate effect. (Each point of attack or defence affecting kill chances by X% where X might have been around 20%). On that model, I am not sure your argument holds. A -4 modifier would have the same proportionate effect on your chance to kill a unit with 40 defence as with one with 10. It's just that the base kill chance would be so much lower (I guess the absolute effect would be smaller).Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaists
I've noticed that phalanxes which are flanked (as AI ones inevitably are) hold out much longer before crumbling. But they do crumble and they would not do if they were fought frontally. So, the possible watering down of tactics is not bothering me much. I didn't notice height advantage in RTW vanilla (whereas in MTW it was very important and in STW it was god-like), so I don't miss that in RTR. I also did not notice experience much (and it probably favours the human, who can retrain vets to keep them full strength). I'll be glad to see armorers and weapons upgrades downgraded, as I find them gamey.
Apparently v6.0 will tone down casualties even more, making moral the key thing. The game probably has lots of modifiers to morale based on tactics, MTW did, so this might appease you. However, I am afraid the game will slow to a crawl as did another "total realism" type mod of another game, Steel Panthers WW2.
More generally, I find the slower battle speed and larger AI enemy stacks least for the Romans) make me savour tactics in RTR more than in RTW vanilla. In vanilla, after winning one big fight, it was usually just a question of walking over weak AI stacks. In RTR, I'm having repeated large scale battles against Macedon and Greece, even Gaul to a degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaists
Good theory...but incorrect(At least for SPQR). You have to actually try the mod...some stats don't apply to the units back (such as shield rating).
In SPQR flanking is even more effective then in vanilla, it's almost a problem :dizzy2:
It's a good mod to say the least, the team put a lot of time and effort into it it is easy to tell...
The only real grudge i have with the current version is that the Ptolemic are still too powerful, historically they went back and forth with the Selucids until the Selucids killed themself against the romans.... but in the current 5.4 RTR the Egyptian empire will just steam roll over the Selucids and everything else on the eastern half of the map with in a few decades....
That and the fact that Pontus and Armenia seem to start without hope, they are totally surronded on all sides by the Selucids or the Ptolmic and Parthia, non of them can be beaten, sure they might get a few city off the Selucids but then the unstoppable Egyptian machine or the super Cataphract armies of Pathia will roll right over them.
But 6.0 will balance out the eastern theater and will tweak the greeks, which should be nice.
actually, i have played SPQR and that's where i actually started thinking about the effect... for one, in SPQR the missiles become even more crucial than in vanilla; second, flanking works, but seemingly not because the kill rate goes up but because of the morale drop. try flanking a high defense/quality unit (hoplites, for example) in SPQR with a high-attack, low defense unit while a good unit of yours is pinning the target. result: an annihilated flanker... the same issue is present in RTR though.Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose
with SQPR i have another "issue"... what's up with that annoying music? :) really irritates me... :)
as for suggestions for simon: i propose trying out the Roma mod to RTR: it does make playing romans hard. i am a bit annoyed by the weakness of the genera'ls cavalry though... they are, basically, equities... :)
And RTR equities get beaten by peltasts. :veryangry:
Um, thanks - just had a look and it seems exactly what I want. (Even with RTR, playing the Romans on medium is easy - just not a brain-numbing like vanilla.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaists
I understand your point about the general's cavalry - it's fun to have a royal knight type unit, but it is unbalancing in vanilla. I think equite-type Roman bodyguards are coming in RTR 6.0 too, apparently. But it does sound historical. Maximus's cavalry charge at the start of the film Gladiator was a blast but not how I envisage most Roman general's behaving.
What is EB?
Is it some sort of MOD?
It is the mod!https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70
It will be better then the xpac! :charge:
hehe, wait (in Roma) until u find out just how weak your italian allies really are (even agains gauls): their morale must be equal to the one of peasants (since the stats are not that inferior to proper roman units)... romanization: the only way for Roma to go... but it takes a lot of a time... and cash...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Appleton
as to general's equities: i'm fine with the tone-down. nonetheless, cavalry charging in the rear of an engaged infantry unit being massacred on impact does not feel right...
I wish you could get Legionaires to duck and cover like Maximus's Legionaires in Germania. Freaking sweet move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Appleton
Yes, been there, done that. I agree it doesn't feel right. (Although have you tried the game "Mount and Blade"? - it nicely simulates the vulnerability of horses when they at rest and inter-mingled with foot.) My equites are now just like weak hobilars, reserved for running down routers. I daren't even charge peltasts with them. However, I used Samartian mercenary cav last night in RTR and they were much more like RTW cavalry I have come to know and love! I still did not dare charge them into the rear of Macedonian infantry, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaists
don't get me nostalgic for the MTW hobilars... :) those things were great! cheap and effective... an all hobilar or hobilar + spear army in the early battles against the french....Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Appleton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaists
I build about 30 from Aquitaine and got about four 3-5 star generals out of them
One conquered France, another subjugated the Irish at 200%, another crusaded to Jeruselum and another conquered the Horde.
Actually, I am joining Simon on regretting the removal of SQPR in the upcoming version 6 of the RTR mod... The Senate missions regardless of how retarded they were at times, kept me from rushing the computer (it is still possible even in RTR to a degree) and provided nice (false) sense of "purpose". :) I kind of miss the big Roman civil war with only one Roman faction being available too... In the end game (and after the Marian reforms), the other romans are the only worthy foes... I know, I know it's Rome Total War REALISM... :)
I prefer Total War FUN! ~D