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But even that party would be considered leftwinged by an American ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Radier
From what I have seen on various websites and news its not that rare to call fellow Americans an "Anti-American" just because they criticize the system so I have no doubt some would consider Europeans even more anti-American. But I don't know how widespread this tendency is really.
CBR
I think you missed something. When it comes to Euro and EU, those parties against it here in Sweden is on the left. Or green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Sadly, I suspect that Reinfeldt is a very poor choise, he seems to be unusually little in tuch with reality, even for a politician. I think Persson should have resigned when he speculated about it though, he has been there too long.Quote:
Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...
This is the way it appears to me:
Europe has a long and storied history, with many of the countries rising and falling in power and status over time. Britain, France, Spain, and Germany as examples each have been the dominant world power at one time or another.
It is true that America has risen to be the dominant world power for right now. And we will experience a decline, make no mistake. China will probably be next on the world stage, much to our chagrin.
Here is my point: It appears that some European countries are resentful of the current balance of power with the U.S. as the "Alpha male" in the pack. They think Americans are arrogant because they know that America will eventually decline in power but most Americans do not. It seems to me that the only country that does not hold this resentment is England. It seems to me that England just accepts that status quo and accepts itself as a great world power, though not the current "Alpha Male". France, Germany, and others are like the weaker dogs in the pack, nipping at the heels of the leader simply because they want to be the big dog.
I am well aware that America will not be the dominant power forever. I believe that most Americans do not view this as true. There is a sort of ethnocentricism in the U.S., where many believe that our inherent "goodness" gives us a birthright to being the world Superpower.
Perhaps the British share this type of ethnocentricism as well. The power of Britain was long felt throughout the world, and I am sure the British have a similar self-image. Same with France, only the French are more whiney about it. Same with Germany, only their national identity still seems to suffer from their national history.
U.S. ethnocentricism is also greatly influenced by the fact that we were never a dictatorship, as most of europe had been at one time or another. Our national heritage greatly affects our national identity, and help us to "see ourselves" in the way that we do. I believe this is probably the same in all countries.
This may explain our belief that we have the right to remove those in power who threaten us and the free world: to remove threats before it is too late. It also explains why much of Europe does not necessarily believe in this strategy. European countries are not self-assured in their 'inherent national goodness' like Americans are because of their history. Thus the perception of arrogance: "Oh you Americans think you are so perfect!"
I do not agree that America necessarily knows best. I am just aware that this is likely what causes this American identity. The self-perception of America will certainly lead to its decline in power, since it will not take emerging powers as seriously as it should, or it will percieve another nation's rise in power as a threat. Perfect example: China.
Was more aimed at PJ than you Gawain, I understood what you meant. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Uhm, how about when you find an organization of Americans that fund terrorists who are attacking Europe, then you get to say there's actual 'Anti-Europeanism.'
(No, not Irish descendents who are angry. Americans who are aiding Europe's enemies for it's own sake.)
Ridiculous.
Prolet-
What are you talking about? American organizations funding anti-European terrorist?
That is ridiculous. Do you honestly think that Americans approve of financing ANY terrorists?
The war on terror is a war against a method of warfare: Purpousely targeting innocent civilians through violence or threats of violence for political or ideoligical reasons. The U.S. National Security Strategy clearly explains this.
When the U.S. goes to war, do we avoid military targets and aim for civilians? Of course not! And nobody give me any rubbish that we do, because that is liberal conspiracy theory propaganda: complete lies.
Not only do I hugely doubt the credibility of your sources for that article but do you really believe a few groups of people who do that over here means that everyone over here is anti American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
To be honest, if you believe that it is very likely that you do not hold a very high opinion of Europe yourself and are very likely to be anti European anyway.
Plus need we go over all the things the white house and CIA have done in the past? Thought not.
I forgot that commondreams.org hasn't weighed in yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
This shows how hypocritically judgemental you actually are. I plan on moving to Europe as soon as possible. I love European culture and am fascinated with the continent's lifestyle. There are very many things I believe Europe does that are light years ahead of the way we do things in America when it comes to leading a balanced lifestyle, which is far more important to me than politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
I don't see how people saying things to the effect of, "Hey. The 'Europeans on the street' do not hate America. They just go case by case, like with anything else." refutes anything. That just means the majority of Europeans aren't idiots. This does nothing to refute the blatantly obvious animosity that exists. Europeans don't even like each other (re, the EU vote). To think a continent that is so rigorously ethnocentric actually doesn't harbor ill-feelings towards the US (when they don't even get along with their own neighbors) is silly.
I am European, I am currently studying in the U.S.
Anyway, I have heard insane hatred, spewed forth from the mouths of many European friends, against the U.S. . This is the sort of stuff that if you repeated in public (and replaced Americans with 3rd world immigrants) would land you in trouble for inciting racial hatred.
Criticisms of Europe by my American friends are simply complaining about some things they dislike about the E.U. and its politicians; bad travel experiences etc. rather than expressions of hatred or wishfully hoping some horrific fate would befall the citizens of the E.U.
So tell me Taffy since you are one of the few Europeans here that actually have been or are in the US how does theperception now of this country square with the perception of the average person over there or yours before you came here? Has your opinion changed?
My opinion has changed immensely. It's far more positive for having spent time here.
Americans suffer from negative stereotyping in a big way (although, to be fair, non-white Americans and left-wing white Americans don't get picked on so much) in the European media.
The weird optimism and kindness of Americans is always fake according to received wisdom but I've found that Americans are incredibly nice and strangely optimistic (especially the evil White right-wingers).
Also the image of Americans as morons is quite tiresome and prevalent yet spend some time in Europe and you'll notice our hordes of loud idiots too (chavs, neds etc.).
I can't remember who said it about the European media and its non-stop negative stereotyping of Americans (and it was a European who said it): "The Americans are the new Jews".
Based on Taff's comment, I would have to say:
Who are the arrogant ones? Seems to be Europe, eh?
Damn Euro-trash. (heehee)
This comes from the mistaken perception that Ireland is part of the British Isles and hence European, when actually it an island off of the coast of New England, specifically Massachussetts, and hence is a part of America. American support for the IRA is simply the next phase of the American Revolutionary War (then its on to Canada and Bermuda).Quote:
Uhm, how about when you find an organization of Americans that fund terrorists who are attacking Europe, then you get to say there's actual 'Anti-Europeanism.'
Regarding the idea that Europeans are anti-American or that Americans hate Euros, remember, love the sinner, abhor the sin.
ichi :bow:
According to some polls, he is now leading the largest party in Sweden. The increased votes for Moderaterna is due to him being more liberal. The right wing party as for now would more likely be KDS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
I am happy to see that Taffy reads and speaks English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Polish, Czech, Slovenian, Portuguese, Dutch, and all other European languages which allow him to speak of the European Media.
By the way, I went in the US in my young days; I liked the Americans I met, and I worked with American in Iraq and Bosnia, but I disagree with the last move of the American actual policy… AND I don’t mix-up American people with the US policy and Administration… I am against the Fuhrer Principe.
Our middle is quite filled with parties nowadays. 5 out of 7 :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
I'm aware that the odds for a borgelig regering after the next election is quite high.
... yeah woho, privetisation (sp?), taxcuts, lesser rights for workers, weakened unions. The Speaches hold by the rightwingers here sounds more like something from a fairytale. Specially "Maud" sounds so naiv its almost laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radier
As "Vänster partiet" and "Social Democraterna" are loosing voters it might result in a rightwing gov. here in sweden wich would result in more (young) leftwingers will just turn to organistions like RKU and AFA and so on. And so, the anti-americanism would increase since many of those extreme leftwing organistions are driven by a blind hatred towards USA.
*sigh* just talking about the future of Sweden makes me depressed.
One can just hope that voters turn to Miljöpartiet (Green party) instead!
There will never be a right wing government in Sweden. A liberal one at the most. Swedes are so brain washed with social democracy so it will take another 100 years to was that away.
The sad thing is that there are no real right parties in Sweden. On the far right you only find racists, nazists or religious nutjobs. The capitalists in Sweden is a dying breed, hunted like English foxes.....
Brenus: I may not read all their media (and who would have the time to)
but I do sometimes have the basic idea behind certain articlles explained to me.
I have lived or worked with People from throughout the U.K., Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria and Poland. I got their view points (seriously, most of these have been more than 1 person representing their groups).
So, the newspaper thing: mostly I have had people from those groups bring attention to articles written in German or French. I apologise then if I do not get access to them everyday.
In that case let me say: the U.K. and Irish media as well as (I have been led to believe by their citizens) German and French media are guilty of what I was saying. Those countries represent almost half the population of the E.U.
Not really true, stats show that the rich earn more and more in sweden while the low and mid income stay the same. You can hardly claim that the rich capitalists are dying here.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
And to say that we are brainwashed by social democracy? nha, even us in the middle (I see myself as in the middle) and many on the left hate social democracy.
Many of my friends are either Green or really really left. I have a few friends that are rightwingers, but they dont evend are to say so in our pressance. ~:cheers:
There is even a blog documenting the anti-Americanism of Le Monde:
http://lemondewatch.blogspot.com/
actually it's about the anti-Americanism of the French media in general but focuses on Le Monde.
update: here's something about Der Spiegel printing an article that annoyed and misrepresented people in what seems to be an attempt at inducing negative attitudes about the U.S. :http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/france-06.htm
Update2: a website about the German media:
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog...ls_antiam.html
Most of them are leaving so they will survive... ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazul
Not at all. Nobody hates Social democracy. People do hate Göran Persson, but that is another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazul
There are no real communists in Sweden. Just some lost souls, pissed off on the monarchy.... ~:grouphug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazul
Gawain, you can bet on that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Did you ever ask yourself why Europe is against the war?
Reminds me of one of the best quotes I've seen in Swedish politics. I think it was the leader for the Green's youth party, when talking about abolishing the monarchy and answering on the commentQuote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
"But the king is more popular than ever"
"Popularity got nothing to do with defending undemocratic laws" or something like that.
And here I thought that democracy equals a popularity contest ~;)
Or they do it this way, they complains about how little they earn in Sweden compared with the rest of Europe. Then the evil Swiss decides to do a study on how much they earn and comes to the conclution that they earn most (or second don't remember exactly) in Europe. ~:eek: Happened to the Swedish VD:s atleast. ~DQuote:
Most of them are leaving so they will survive...