:iloveyou: Germany will propably send another 800 soldiers to Afghanistan. Good luck
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:iloveyou: Germany will propably send another 800 soldiers to Afghanistan. Good luck
People who want to grow it, will grow it no matter what. You will not get more people growing it so long as the fines are harsh enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
The laws regulating production and sale of MJ should be the same as the laws regulating production and sale of Alcohol. People can brew there own beer, sure. But they can't sell it without the proper permits. I think distilled alcohol also requires a permit to produce.
The nature of the regulation would change to a business regulation, rather then out-right criminal regulation. Certainly mass produced marijuana and related sales should remain illegal.
Cube, do you believe that Marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol? Do you believe that the cost to society for legalizing marijuan is greater than the cost of keeping it illegal?
just go living in the Netherlands or near it ;).
Soft drugs is legal out there. You can but it there in what they/we call a koffie-shop. I've been in Maastricht (city in the Netherlands). So far I've seen no problems over there...
They've also made it legal in Belgium well using it (tough nobody knows if it's still legal or not and how much you may have) wich doesn't make any sence since you can't (legally) sell/buy/import drugs in Belgium. But you have to be older then 18 and you can't use it in the neighbourhood of minors.
I think the Netherlands has proven it that it doesn't cause to much problems you just have to make it clear whats legal and what's illegal. something they didn't in belgium.
But it's fine as long as it's used responsibly! It's no one elses buisness if they want to get high or get drunk, unless they harm another person.
Gert, my friend's dream is to go to the Netherlands and to one of those coffe shops. ~;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
So you want to tell me what I can and can't do just because?
Why don't you elaborate on this, please.
As I asked before, which do you think is more cistly to society: legalizing marijuana or keeping it illegal? Keep in mind all the costs to society from both angles. "Because it intoxicates you" seems pretty arbitrary and holier-than-thou to me.
Please tell me, what business is it of yours if I responsibly intoxicate myself?
I'm for the legalization, regulation and taxation of all drugs. As long as I do it in private, it's none of the government's business what I put into my body.
I do think that people should be able to grow on their own, as long as they don't sell it.
Well if someone is high and hits you, they get prosecuted. Besides, more people would smoke at home if it's legal. People I know smoke while driving because there isn't really any other place to smoke that is easily accesible.
(Yes, I know it is wrong and really stupid of them to do that, which is why I never smoke and drive.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
I agree with this point. As a matter of fact, I am a California certified Traffic Accident Investigator and Reconstructionist. I have been working wrecks for about three years now, so I know exactly what you are talking about. This position also allows me to speak from a unique perspective to address your concerns.
You are correct. The legalization of Marijuana will lead ton increase in other-than-alcohol DUIs. The cost to society can be reasonably predicted based on several factors:
Property damage, personal injury and related medical expenses, and litigation
In considering the total cost increase, we need to know a couple of things: How many additional offenders will there be? Is it reasonable to assume that DUIs (including OTA DUIs) will double? Or is it reasonable to assume that the people who drive drunk would also drive stoned, and there will be only a small increase in DUIs? I can't answer this becasue I don't have the data.
But now consider the cost to society in keeping marijuana illegal:
Law enforcement, legal proceedings, prison upkeep, property damage and personal injury from drug-related crime, etc. How much does sosciety have to pay when a drug dealer kills his rival as well as some innocent kid in a drive-by? Again, litigation, etc etc.
My point is this. It is a simple governing decision whereby the total cost (in money and in trauma) of legalizing marijuana is less than the cost of keeping it illegal. It was the same with alcohol. By having alcohol illegal, the mafia gained great power. This led to a greater cost to society then having it legal.
So, Gel Cube, I understand your point, but society and individuals will suffer less if marijuana were legal.
This does not even account for the increased beenfits to the public of legal marijuana: a low-cost medication for those suffering from disease, tax revenue, and a massive increase in the sale of potato chips and cheeze whiz.
Your logic is way more flawed. And I did consider loss of lives, it was included as a cost (money and trauma).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Many many lives are lost in the war on drugs, to include inncoents. Drive-bys, revenge killings, etc etc. You think drug dealer middlemen are content with only pot? (middlemen, not the dealers who go right to the street) This trash is shipped in from out of the country, usually through mexico and is a major source of funding for the mexican mafia and there subsdiary gangsters.
Cube, Here is a little lesson.
Marijuana is grown domestically and internationally. Domestic growers can range from individual smokers to farm-for-profit types. Typically, domestic growers do not have their hands in alternative crimial enterprise. They just grow it, sell it to a regional distributor, who then sells it to local dealers.
International importers are much different. They are usually a division of larger criminal organization. The marijuana is grown (mostly in south america or mexico) by local townsfolk who are paid, supervised, and controlled by associates of the criminal organization. The drug is then shipped in large quantities into america via a multitude of distribution methods: speedboat, tractor trailer on the NAFTA superhighway, personal vehicle, and to a lesser extent small planes. Once the marijuana comes into the united states, it goes into a regional controllers custody, who then distributes it to the local distributors. These local distributors are gangs who are funded and supported by the larger criminal enterprise. The criminal organization supplies the gangs with drugs and a plethora of weapons. The criminal organization also recieves huge profits from these sales, which funds government bribery/corruption, other drug enterprises, criminal expansion, etc.
So, my gelatinious friend, consider the bigger picture. It is not just the occasional death of a cop or some crack whores kid I am talking about. Let's think about what a crimanl organization really gets from selling the reefer.
The war on drugs is a failed policy. Legalization of marijuana is an eventuality that should have happened years ago. It only obtained its reputation as an "evil" and "terrible" drug becasue religious nuts and teetotals jumped on it and pressured the government. The gov then put this miserbale spin on it as a "gateway drug".
You cannot die from a marijuana overdose, unlike alcohol. You do not blackout like alcohol. You do not lose total control of yourself like alcohol. You do not lose your inhibitions like alcohol, in fact you may be more inhibited. The worst side effect of marijuana is that one who smokes it tends to become very unambitious. Once you smoke the stuff a couple of times, you get the facts. I don't smoke it and probably never will again, regardless of whether or not it is legal. That is my choice. The same choice millions of Americans will make on the day it becomes legal. And one day it will.
I hope I have broadened your mind at least a little. Feel free to ask me any questions on this topic becasue it is obvious that you have been misinformed.
Warmest Regards,
DA