I don't know how you guys do the big battles without the pause button...
I need it just to get all my units into good position, especially lining up ranks of spearmen/sarges.
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I don't know how you guys do the big battles without the pause button...
I need it just to get all my units into good position, especially lining up ranks of spearmen/sarges.
turks freakin own in the desert :)
Nope english do.
Exactly. Coudn't ask for a better lineup than, Futtuwa's, Ghazi's, Jannisary Heavies, Turocoman Horse and Armenian Heavy Cavalry. :charge:Quote:
Originally Posted by PittBull260
Well, I love Turks, just that Ghulam Cavalry seems better to me than Armenian HC. Armenian HC either rout the enemy on contact or slowly lose...
:wink:
I think Armenian heavy cavalry are much superior, although I'm talking campaign game here and not multiplayer as in the campaign its easy to quickly build a master horse breeder in Armenia and you've got +2 valour armenian heavy cavalry.
I usually conquer an iron province and re-train my ranged units there. An arbalester or longbowman with an upgrated weapon can really wear down enemy units to the point of fleeing.
The problem with the Turks in the desert is that their best troops are fairly heavily armored - JHI, AHC and Ghulam Cav for example.
For pure desert its gotta be the Egyptians, Futs, Nizari, Abyssinians, Camels, Faris, Ghazis - usually high morale troops with low armor.
ichi :bow:
You really need to remember 3 simple things if your playing with Cathys and using a spearman core or the Byz with a Infantry core:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark
1. Simple = Good - For example with your spearmen. Select them all, group them, and drag them into a 5-6 deep formation. This allows them to be side-by-side each other and reduces the time it takes to line your troops up on an offense if the enemy starts running around.
2. Camera and Minimap - Set the camera as high as possible so you can see as much as possible and always check on any unit with a fighting symbol or is doing something not right(moving while should not, staying still while should be moving). For example, if your line is surrounded by archers, you can double click on them to instazoom to where the enemy is advancing. Learn to use it and love it all the time.
3. Only micro 1-4 units at a time. Main battleline units can usually take care of themselves unless they get really really messed up. Besides, you can really move those guys around. Cav is what you really have to concentrate on when you're microing something.
I'd have to disagree. JHI only have armour 3, easily useable in the desert and the AHC only have armour 4, the +2 valour bonus easily outweighs their slight (only 1 too high) armour disadvantage in the desert. They are like Chivalric Knights, with less armour (better for desert) and an era earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by ichi
But of course the eggies have the best army for the desert, it would be a stupid game mechanic if they didn't. xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark
a.s.m. beat me to it ...........but another variation is to create the group using Ctrl-clicks on the unit icons, press G for group, then right-click on the group header bar to get the group actions menu, hover your cursor on 'group formations, then browse the pop-out list of available patterns. Then press the number for the required formation. '1' makes them all line up nicely.
That's the menu-driven way but I have to admit it is cludgy by comparison. However, once you know which number is which pattern, you only have to create a group and press '1' for single line, or whatever.
Actually I hate the GUI since, if I'm rushed and I slide the mouse pointer sideways in anything less than a horizontal straight line, the sidewards pop-out menu vanishes when the cursor misses its mark and I have to repeat the process. Perhaps it's best to do this in pause one time and write down the various formations on a quick reference card. (I ought to take my own advice here, so I don't have to keep browsing the menu to see what's available).
The method a.s.m. described is far better though as you can click on units in a logical order L to R across the field (or vice versa) then drag out unit shapes to exactly where they're wanted, with a clear idea of how much ground they will cover. Much more intuitive.
With regard to what I described, the hazard of clicking on the unit icons at the bottom of screen is that they frequently don't relate to the relative L to R positions within your army. When you select the icons, group them and tell them to form line, sometimes they all bunch up as they bump into each other halfway to crossing over to their new positions according to how the game decided to sort them. Oops.
A fast-reacting and wily enemy will charge into you while you're temporarily in a disorganised mess like this, provided you were close enough.
It is also the only clean way to 'wheel' your entire army into a particular direction and retain overall formation. As far as I can see, there is no game command to do this, seemingly, most fundamental behaviour.
Alt-right-map-click only makes units turn to face that direction but they all swivel on the spot, whereas I'm talking about entire formations turning (in reality it's quite tricky to do, as the flanks need to run many times faster than the centre ranks).
There are times when I've tried to use 'march with fixed facing' to achieve this but muddled my keypresses, pressed Alt-map-click instead of Ctrl-map-click and ended up with all my units charging to the assigned map point, then standing, arranged as previously but obligingly with their collective flanks facing the enemy ~:eek: I was lucky that a crash to desktop saved me from the ensuing massacre I was suffering as the enemy took advantage of the mess created by my attempts to re-orient everything.
Basically all attempts at whole-army maneuvres (conducted with all 16 units highlighted) have the inbuilt hazard of a clumsy click here or there... :embarassed:
@ Eatyergreens & Munkiman
You have no idea how helpful those posts were. Thanks gentlemen. :bow:
That's actually a few things I've forgot to add.
4. Spacebar is your best friend, EVER. It shows where your units will end up. I personally issue more of my commands with spacebar pressed. It's great for foramtions.
5. The closer the more micro. The closer the enemy is, the more you have to respond without using mass moves. The computer may not process correctly if too many things start to happen. Thus, if a mass move(ALT + LEFT) scatters your forces by having them turn 60 degrees when they arrive at their location, YOU WILL DIE HORRIBLY and should run or halt and charge into the enemy and try to flank desperately. It is much better to manually move your forces one by one when the enemy is close unless it is an end up facing this the same direction.
You CAN ALT+ RIGHT DRAG TURN YOUR ARMY. You have to group them all in one group and have them in hold position to make sure 90% of the time it works. It may have problems when too many things are happening. It's easier to rapid deploy in rows sometimes if your formation is simple.
Also, knights are evil and the AI likes to send them on ridiculously wide edge hugging Hail Mary flanking missions and will try and force you to move. This is bad in unpaused. Thus, you REALLY need something to deal with annoying cavalry, either better cav or habs will do. HA running them around is useful. They are good to jack up a attacking cav force if you put them near where the enemy starts.
6. Remember where specific units are. It's usually good to group your units from your left to right or soemthing. That's not good enough though. When your guys are taking casualties, remember the unit sizes so you can identify the position and status of units you're not microing just to make sure they're not dead... or sitting there doing nothing. Double clicking is rather... disorienting compared to knowing where your units are and how they're doing. Scrolling also allows you to check things along the way unless your guys are getting pwned. Battlefield awareness almost guarentees victory.
7. Archers:smash:. Archers will stop firing automatically if your units are engaged, but they will not stop if you order them to target a unit. Archer management is nice to learn. If you're busy microing, it's a good idea to keep them in hold position, formation and fire at will. Fire a will can be troublesome because archers like to have optimal everyone-is-shooting formations. Hold position will keep them form turning in an annoying way that would run a corner of them into a melee.
This is easy to solve, but first I have to make it clear that I only hard group infantry. Pavs and cavs get positioned prior to the fight in relation to their icons - the left-most pav icon represents the left-most pav on the field, the center pav icon represents the center pav, etc..Quote:
With regard to what I described, the hazard of clicking on the unit icons at the bottom of screen is that they frequently don't relate to the relative L to R positions within your army. When you select the icons, group them and tell them to form line, sometimes they all bunch up as they bump into each other halfway to crossing over to their new positions according to how the game decided to sort them. Oops.
Let's say you have 5 Men-at-Arms for an infantry line. Line them up (eg FMAA FMAA CMAA FMAA FMAA) then left click on the left-most unit, then hold CTRL and left click on the second-to-left unit, then the center unit, across the line until all are selected. Now hit G for hard group (hit F while you're at it to make them Hold Formation) and voila the icons for the units are sorted left to right in the order they appear (left to right) on the field.
I use soft groups for cav (select the cav you want to group, then hit CTRL+Shift+1 - then hit CTRL-1 to to group in combat). Works for any # (CTRL_Shift-#)
ichi :bow:
like ASM said, select the units then hit G then use Alt-Right Click to make the formation wheel in unison.Quote:
It is also the only clean way to 'wheel' your entire army into a particular direction and retain overall formation. As far as I can see, there is no game command to do this, seemingly, most fundamental behaviour.
Alt-right-map-click only makes units turn to face that direction but they all swivel on the spot, whereas I'm talking about entire formations turning (in reality it's quite tricky to do, as the flanks need to run many times faster than the centre ranks).
ichi :bow:
Once more in high and late the english have the best desert units . In early the French have the best. If you dont believe me ask anyone whos faced my English army in the desert. Its almost like cheating. Long bows and clansmen rule the desert.Quote:
But of course the eggies have the best army for the desert, it would be a stupid game mechanic if they didn't. xD
Nah, the money saved by the camel-using factions (as you need only 4 camels and a few cheap fast saharans as cav) can be used to boost the infantry, which in muslim factions is more often hybrid than not. Meaning that in the end ,apart from the 4 (or 6 for me;)) lbs, you'll need to use up about 3 slots to normal archers or crossbows if you don't plan on waiting for a long time. Turks or Egyptians can have better archer units and better hybrid ones -considering LB as hybrids, although even at v3 their routing is often just one or two good cav charges away-, at the expense of range, which will not win the day solely on its own for the English. Shooting the camels is always a good idea but ,hey, just wishing for it doesn't always work;)Quote:
Once more in high and late the english have the best desert units . In early the French have the best. If you dont believe me ask anyone whos faced my English army in the desert. Its almost like cheating. Long bows and clansmen rule the desert.
I didn't know that the French had any special units... I thought they just got insanely good land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Oh, okay. It's just when I've brought more than 16 units with me and have done some swapping around. When you make the change, the replacement's icon always appears on the extreme left, regarless of its field position. If all the units are 60 men, it's hard to tell one from another but I'll take your word for it that the group properly sorts them from left to right.Quote:
Originally Posted by ichi
I don't quite understand what you mean by 'soft' groupings, nor what's going on when you set them up. Can you expand on that description? What can be achieved with this technique that isn't done properly with normal groupings?Quote:
Originally Posted by ichi
Also, are those keypresses undocumented? I don't recognise them.
It sorts IF you select them by clicking on the units on the field from left to right. It is possible for them to get unsorted during battle.Quote:
I'll take your word for it that the group properly sorts them from left to right.
I use the term 'hard group' to mean one that uses the G key. Select several units, hit the G key, and they are hard grouped.Quote:
I don't quite understand what you mean by 'soft' groupings, nor what's going on when you set them up. Can you expand on that description? What can be achieved with this technique that isn't done properly with normal groupings?
I use the term soft group for when I select several units then hold down the Ctrl and Shift key and any number.
For example, I hard group my infantry line. Since units that are hard grouped tend to try to wheel about in formation I do not hard group my cav (hard grouped cav have a much harder time disengaging). But I want some cav grouped for ease of control.
Bear with me, this is hard to explain (at least for me). In online play I tend to use 3 pavs, placed out front, followed by 3 heavy cav, followed by my infantry line, with a heavy cav on each flank, my gen in the rear.
I want to group the 3 cav in front, so I select them, hold CTRL and Shift and the number 1 (CTRL-Shift-1). I then select all my missile units, all my infantry units and my gen and hit CTRL-Shift-2.
Now, during the battle I can hit CTRL-1 to select the 3 cav or Ctrl-2 to select my main force.
If, for example, I have an army with a cav archer, and I frequently use my cav archer independently of my main force, I might select all of the units except the cav archer
and hit Ctrl-Shift-4. This way I can select all units EXCEPT the cav archer using Ctrl-4. Of course, Ctrl-A selects all units, Ctrl-M selects all missiles, Ctrl-C selects all cav.
Hope that helps. If you want more let's plan to meet onlineand fight a few MP battles, be happy to show you a few tricks, and its easier to be clear.
ichi :bow:
I usually use hard groupings since I can see who is where.
I see. I think I have a tendency to select by clicking on the icons and maybe that's the problem. I did a quick test the other night, grouped about 5 inf units together and then double-clicked on each icon in turn, to make the camera move to them. Oddly enough, clicking the icons in L to R order made the camera shuffle from R to L!!! That's the sort of thing I mean. Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ichi
Ah, I remember this now. I used that for things like grouping whatever makes up my left flank, my centre, my right flank, my archers (for targeting control purposes) and so on. I didn't realise it also worked without first defining a hard group for each 'team'. That'll be handy, particularly if, as you say, hard grouping has adverse effects on unit behavour.Quote:
Originally Posted by ichi
That's something I'd like to try sometime. Though it'll take me a while to come up with a much better online handle than the one I'm using here!Quote:
Originally Posted by ichi
By the way, you'll be please to learn that I've now gone ahead with installing V.I. I totalled several week's worth of campaign gamesaves as it kept crashing at the same point between two big battles and I didn't want to backtrack to an old save. Thought I may as well start from scratch, with a whole new game.
I've also installed GameSpy arcade and need to set up a user account before I can go any further.
A few other issues arising - I don't know if any further patches need to be applied to V2.01 to ensure the MP side will work (eg if other people are patched and I'm not) and I'll also need tips on proper firewall configuration, port numbers and so on. No need to reply on that, I'm sure it's in the FAQ somewhere.
The biggest obstacle to MP at the moment is that I've got tech troubles with CTD's and spontaneous PC reboots, which weren't fixed by the latest vid driver, sadly. I've posted in the apothecary about it here.
We're wayyyyy off topic here. Does the forum cope with thread-splitting?
In other words, if I hit the reply or quote button but change the message title before submit reply, will it be properly recognised as a new thread or will it bring up an error message and make me lose everything I've typed?
Great, let me know when are up and running.Quote:
That's something I'd like to try sometime. Though it'll take me a while to come up with a much better online handle than the one I'm using here!
BTW, EYG is a great online name, IMHO
ichi :bow:
Im afraid you dont understand the LBs are my archers. I wont even engage your archers but shoot your hybrids or melee units. I will have 8 fast hard hittingg cav that your camels cant catch and my clansmen will go through just about anything you have like a knife through butter. I dont know if you play mp but ask anyone whos faced this army.Quote:
Nah, the money saved by the camel-using factions (as you need only 4 camels and a few cheap fast saharans as cav) can be used to boost the infantry, which in muslim factions is more often hybrid than not. Meaning that in the end ,apart from the 4 (or 6 for me;)) lbs, you'll need to use up about 3 slots to normal archers or crossbows if you don't plan on waiting for a long time.
Again I only speak of mp. The French have so many good desert units its hard to pick them. They have Holibars, mounted sargents and Turcuotes for cav. They have clansmen and fanatics for inf . Plus numerous types of archers.Quote:
I didn't know that the French had any special units... I thought they just got insanely good land.
French clansmen?
Another multiplayer feature?
Don't the English get Scots in early?
Well then you 've wasted good money on the LBs and in the end you 'll be forced to attack. In the end if you start shooting the opponents' inf, why won't he do the same to yours? He'll have more archers units anyway and some of them possibly "fast". If you send the supposedly fast english cav (such a thing doesn't exist btw) to get the extra archers, then they'll get shot by the second line if you face muslim factions with hybrids. Hobilars and Mounted Sergeants aren't to be chased around by camels as if they dont engage at some point the numerical superior muslim inf will win the 4 highland clansmen (which won't win vs JI v3 and will not win fast enough,if they win at all, vs MS v3 or even Otto inf v4), not taking account that they'll get hurt a by incoming missiles. Hobilars will be also hard pressed to win vs alans and even MSergeants v3 (if you can afford 'em at all) will need much more time to kill the cheaper v2 Faris than a camel v3 to kill 2 hobilars v3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
But things are really fickle during battle and all types of results are possible due to many circumstances not controllable by the player.
Well there are a few 100 times I faced such armies, but not controlled by you IIRC. I 've won easily, won hard, won due to timely allied intervention, won cause of opponents' mistakes, lost easily , lost after a doggish fight, lost due to allies sitting while getting doubled, due to bad armies, due to my own silly playing etc etc etc.Quote:
I dont know if you play mp but ask anyone whos faced this army
But no I don't play online ~D
V0 lbs are very cheap. How will I be forced to attack unless your turks with tons of arrows? If you are it wont matter as ill run you over.Quote:
Well then you 've wasted good money on the LBs and in the end you 'll be forced to attack.
No I out range them If he tries to get them in range my cav will chase them back or kill them.Quote:
In the end if you start shooting the opponents' inf, why won't he do the same to yours?
Check the stats they are fast and will run circles around camels. In fact they will rout camels if you can get them in the open.Quote:
If you send the supposedly fast english cav (such a thing doesn't exist btw) to get the extra archers, then they'll get shot by the second line if you face muslim factions with hybrids.
Your wrong again. Are we talking 10k here? I havent seen anyone use v3 jhi in 10k. Meanwhile my clan are v4 w2 beleive me they go through anything at that level in 10k. Also all the have to do is engae the enemy inf while my cav flanks both sides.Quote:
s if they dont engage at some point the numerical superior muslim inf will win the 4 highland clansmen (which won't win vs JI v3 and will not win fast enough,if they win at all, vs MS v3 or even Otto inf v4)
The you are clueless and havent the foggiest idea of what you speak. I have one I would say over a thousand battles in the desert with this army and I would venture win over 90% of such games. Again ask anyone who has faced me in the desert. I really am quite fearsome ~DQuote:
But no I don't play online
I agree with Gawain that the English is a good faction to use in the desert. I remember some CWC desert battles where my team was helpless to prevent the longbows from weakening our melee units.
Well, well, well - the only way to find it out that you two get together in an online fight (maybe a tournament of a few battles) and see who is better :wink: Each one of you can pick the favourite faction and you can do different priced battles...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
If you do make sure to capture some screenshots and save the battle replays and post them here!!!
:charge: