King Arthur

I have to say the only decent movie about Arthur was Excalabur, hey it wasn't historically accurate but a damn good movie.

I dont think modern britts consider themselves roman especially because they speak a language based on saxon (germanic). Maybe there were Romano british after the Roman retreat and Arthur Castus (supposedly the first king of britain) was Roman. This does not change the fact that today british ethnicity is anything but Roman, rather a blend of celtic, roman, french and predominantly german (viking, saxon).

Quote:

---

I dont think modern britts consider themselves roman especially because they speak a language based on saxon (germanic).

---

It's ok, but we were speaking about Britons of the late antiquity/early middle ages, at the beginning of the Saxon invasion

Quote:

---

Maybe there were Romano british after the Roman retreat and Arthur Castus (supposedly the first king of britain) was Roman.

---

Lucius Artorius Castus was a roman commander of the IIIrd century, but I really doubt he was THE Arthur who must live in the V-VIth century. This one was a Briton and also a roman because at this time the Britons were romans citizens (thought the Western Empire was gone, people don't say 'Hey, we are in 476, the Empire is finish, we are no longer in the Antiquity, we are no longer romans, now we are in the middle ages).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agraes

Lucius Artorius Castus was a roman commander of the IIIrd century, but I really doubt he was THE Arthur who must live in the V-VIth century. This one was a Briton and also a roman because at this time the Britons were romans citizens (thought the Western Empire was gone, people don't say 'Hey, we are in 476, the Empire is finish, we are no longer in the Antiquity, we are no longer romans, now we are in the middle ages).

---

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I got fooled by that stupid King Arthur movie and most of my statemenst about King Arthur were based on that rather inaccurate movie. I will do some research on Britain and learn more about the country before posting.

Another brick in the wall for tying a historical romanized Briton to the later chivalric invention of Arthur is the fact that the Britons weren't just driven into Wales by the Saxon invasions. They were also driven south to Brittany. If there were an oral tradition of an Arthur-like figure in Briton (and thus Breton) lore of the fight against the Saxons, then it would have both English and French connections later. Remember that the more modern tales of Arthur and his chivalric knights came after the Norman invasion of England. Much of the Norman army were actually Bretons.

Was there an oral tradition of an Arthur or Arthur-like figure in Welsh and Breton tales? Absolutely. There are mentions of a powerful Arthur-type figure, often called Arthur in fact, in many Welsh and Breton tales which predate the chivalric Arthurian romances.

"The Elegy for Geraint" (also called "The Battle of Llongborth") from the "Black Book of Carmarthen" is a 6th century Welsh poem which mentions an Arthur and his heroes.

The Welsh "Annales Cambriae" from the 10th century mentions a King Arthur.

The early 11th century "Legend of St. Geoznovius" contains an entire preface devoted to King Arthur. The author, a Breton named William who was chaplain to Bishop Eudo of Leon, says his source was the "Ystorica Britanica" which no longer seems to exist. But, since his tale predates Geoffrey of Monmouth's mention of Arthur in his "Historia Regum Britanniae" by almost a century, Geoffrey quite plausibly used either the Legend of St. Geoznovius or this "Ystorica Britanica" as a source. Geoffrey was born in Wales and may have had Breton ancestry as well.

Remember also that when writers told their tales, they embellished the stories with the customs, modes of dress and general culture of their own time. So by the time the Arthurian romances such as those of Chrétien de Troyes began to flourish, using sources such as Geoffrey of Monmouth and Welsh stories and possibly oral traditions of the Bretons as well, the characters became chivalric knights in armor - like the knights of the time in which they were written.

i read the warlord series by bernard cromwell,but i have found an even better series in my mind.
the first book is THE SKYSTONE by jack whyte
it doesnt start with arthur,they start with his great grandfather who was a roman centurion on britain.he forges excalibur from a meteorite metal (hence skystone)
im still reading the 1st one but so far it is awesome.

He was a samatrian knight taken by the romans put in briton and saved the celts from the saxons geez simple history :dizzy2:

It is always best to go back to the primary sources I find ~;) Nennius, a historian writing in the 8th century, is credited with the first historic reference to a real Arthur - here is the text translation from the original Latin. He is not as rigorous as Bede on his historical facts and he does tend to dwell on the religious overtones, but his writings about Arthur are important nonetheless and he is believed to have had access to fifth and sixth century documents which no longer survive. He is writing here about events in the later fifth and early 6th centuries................

56. At that time, the Saxons grew strong by virtue of their large number and increased in power in Britain. Hengist having died, however, his son Octha crossed from the northern part of Britain to the kingdom of Kent and from him are descended the kings of Kent. Then Arthur along with the kings of Britain fought against them in those days, but Arthur himself was the military commander ["dux bellorum"]. His first battle was at the mouth of the river which is called Glein. His second, third, fourth, and fifth battles were above another river which is called Dubglas and is in the region of Linnuis. The sixth battle was above the river which is called Bassas. The seventh battle was in the forest of Celidon, that is Cat Coit Celidon. The eighth battle was at the fortress of Guinnion, in which Arthur carried the image of holy Mary ever virgin on his shoulders; and the pagans were put to flight on that day. And through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ and through the power of the blessed Virgin Mary his mother there was great slaughter among them. The ninth battle was waged in the City of the Legion. The tenth battle was waged on the banks of a river which is called Tribruit. The eleventh battle was fought on the mountain which is called Agnet. The twelfth battle was on Mount Badon in which there fell in one day 960 men from one charge by Arthur; and no one struck them down except Arthur himself, and in all the wars he emerged as victor. And while they were being defeated in all the battles, they were seeking assistance from Germany and their numbers were being augmented many times over without interruption. And they brought over kings from Germany that they might reign over them in Britain, right down to the time in which Ida reigned, who was son of Eobba. He was the first king in Bernicia, i.e., in Berneich.