Abortion

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

How the hell would you know? Im sure this isnt so for the baby.

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A ten week old fetus is not a person, it feels nothing. Adoption however brings pain and misery. Not always but it leaves a mark on you your whole life.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

That baby is just as much mine as hers. Yet I haver no rights other than to pay for it. If you dont think it helps a woman when pregnat to have a supportive male around your clueless. Im sure any of us who have gone through putting up with them in this condition will back me up. Dont try to give me this crap she does all the work.

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Sure a baby is, but a fetus is not a baby. And you only have no say and only monetary responsibilities if your not pair bonded with the childs mother.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

So then you agree with me.

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That child custody laws and practises are extremely biased towards women by default. The whole kid belongs with his mother mentality, yes. About aboption never.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Equal chance? What world are you living in where half the people would choose to abort their babies?

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If the woman felt the need to spring a lasso baby on the guy, he must have been real gun shy about commitment. Even if it was an oops baby, the guy obviously reacted the wrong. In reproductive decisions men only have a right to a consultative role. No matter how much we fuss and fume the decision is ultimately the womans and not ours.

Oh how exciting, another abortion thread. There hasn't been one of these for at least a week. I always really enjoy the discord they cause and the way they never change anybody's mind. If I was a mod I'd lock the thread now, just to save time. :help:

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A ten week old fetus is not a person, it feels nothing. Adoption however brings pain and misery. Not always but it leaves a mark on you your whole life.

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Are you sure about that. What is it a lizard? Its human and its alive. Thats good enough for me to care about it. Ask any woman who had a misscarriage at this point if that wasnt her baby.

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Sure a baby is, but a fetus is not a baby

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And a baby is not a fully developed human either.

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And you only have no say and only monetary responsibilities if your not pair bonded with the childs mother.

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Pair bonded. Is this some new form of marriage? Why should she get the kid and me the expenses?

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In reproductive decisions men only have a right to a consultative role. No matter how much we fuss and fume the decision is ultimately the womans and not ours.

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Thats the way it is but its doesnt make it right. What ever happened to gender discrimination?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Are you sure about that. What is it a lizard? Its human and its alive. Thats good enough for me to care about it. Ask any woman who had a misscarriage at this point if that wasnt her baby.


And a baby is not a fully developed human either.

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It's not alive, not yet. Life to me is the ability to function on it's own, which a baby can do and a fetus can't. Life is a quirk of chemistry. When we die it takes weeks for all of our cells to cease to function. And that is all a fetus is cells.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Pair bonded. Is this some new form of marriage? Why should she get the kid and me the expenses?

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Pair bonding is marriage. Always has been. It's the scientific term for the final stage of human courtship rituals. Marriage is not nessiary for child rearing. If "god" had intended us to marry we would need to do it before we could procreate.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Thats the way it is but its doesnt make it right. What ever happened to gender discrimination?

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Nothing happened to it we were just told to ignore the man behind the curtain for so long that we do.

I find abortion pretty repellent... but I couldn't justify a blanket policy on it.

I find it equally repellent that old white men have the power to dictate the terms.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager
"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born."



Talk about speaking the blooming obvious. The quote is completely meaningless and displays no brains and light on the subject at all.

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It highlights the sheer hipocrisy of the pro-abortion movement. These people would not even exist to promote abortion if the practice had been done to them. ~;)

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

It highlights the sheer hipocrisy of the pro-abortion movement. These people would not even exist to promote abortion if the practice had been done to them. ~;)

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Well then I take it you are against murder and killing of all forms because if it had been done to you you would not exist.

Also you must be against pollution, because if you happened to live in say a bay full of mercury (japan) you would be dead or deformed.

Also you must be against nuclear weapons, guns, knives etc because if they had been used against you then you would not exist either...

Just a general generalisation, which of course generates such generally general results which are generally due to their generality not entirely useful.

That was a pretty desperate attempt at relativity.

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Well then I take it you are against murder and killing of all forms because if it had been done to you you would not exist.

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I dont support murder.. I also dont support unneccessary killing, which is the essense of abortion.

Your other examples dont even make sense.

I don't think "hypocrisy" is an appropriate term.

Pro-abortionists had no sway over their own birth.

Why do they have sway over another person's then?

Oh dear... ~:handball:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Why do they have sway over another person's then?

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They don't, that's the whole point. Only the parents should have any say, not me, not you, not the guv.

BTW its not murder unless the fetus could survive on its own.

ichi :bow:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

And a baby is not a fully developed human either.

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But he is an American citizen if born on US soil..... ~:grouphug:

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But he is an American citizen if born on US soil.

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For the moment. ~;)

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It's not alive,

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Now not only isnt it human its not alive either. Did you take biology?

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Adoption however brings pain and misery. Not always but it leaves a mark on you your whole life.

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That's rubbish. One of my best friends was put up for adoption, rather than being aborted. He is thankful that his genetic mother stuck it through to give him away to someone that could deal with the huge responsibility then. To him, it doesn't even become like he is unwanted or worthless; his adoptive parents are his real parents, as far as he is concerned, and they obviously care for him.

The truth is that there is little point in DEBATING this. Let me explain based on what I've noticed.

Ok so one believes that fetus is a person the other doesn't. And then both sides repeat that what they think is true and that the consequences of the opposite are dire. This is what I don't get! Who cares what the other person wants to think! There is only one truth! If you are absolutely convinced of something this unprovable, without having university education in medicine, why bother trying to convince someone else when you yourself don't have hard evidence to support your own claim.

The real issue is societal overindulgence. I don't think people whould be randomly having sex with whoever. That is wrong(for the reliigous out there) and illogical, simple as that. This wouldn't be an issue if people would behave properly. I know it's ironic, but I finally have come to my senses. ~D

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Originally Posted by ichi

They don't, that's the whole point. Only the parents should have any say, not me, not you, not the guv.

BTW its not murder unless the fetus could survive on its own.

ichi :bow:

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Unless it could, and then it's still not murder. Week 39... still not human!!!

[QUOTE=lars573]A ten week old fetus is not a person, it feels nothing. Adoption however brings pain and misery. Not always but it leaves a mark on you your whole life.

So your saying that being born and adopted (in Europe there are very few babies up for adoption, and many more people unable to have children and wanting to adopt), is worse than not having any sort of life at all. ~:confused:

Well, speaking as somebody who was adopted, it's much less painful than having your skull punctured and your brain sucked out.

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Originally Posted by King Henry V

So your saying that being born and adopted (in Europe there are very few babies up for adoption, and many more people unable to have children and wanting to adopt), is worse than not having any sort of life at all. ~:confused:

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Yes.

BS I know a girl that is adopted and she is just as normal as every one else.

And I know a guy that is adopted, He is in all the advance classes the debate team etc (real smart guy)


I dont see anything wrong with them, I am pretty sure if I asked them if they wanted to be aborted they'd say no and then slap/punch me!

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Originally Posted by lars573

I always find it amusing how men can come down on abortion so firmly. Your never going to have to deal with it, so it's not your place to say whether it should be right or wrong. It should be up to the people are going to have to deal it(IE women).

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oh god... you want to make a point of who has to deal with abortion? ill tell you who has to deal with it, THE BABY WHOS LIFE HAS BEEN TERMINATED BY A SELFISH MOTHER. they are the real victims here, if ANYONE here had a choice, a choice to live or do die, regardless of your situation, EVERYONE would chose to live. A child you do not abort will forver love you, and grow into something special. who are we to deny ayone that right to LIFE.

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Originally Posted by lars573

A ten week old fetus is not a person, it feels nothing. Adoption however brings pain and misery. Not always but it leaves a mark on you your whole life.

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a ten week old foetus will become a human, a person a being, regardless, and who is to say that a 10 week old doesnt have its own soul, its own essence already? A human has to grow from something, and that something is almost nothing, 2 single cells infact that when merged create the miracle of life. A ten week old foetus is as much a person as a 20 year old, they have all that life in front of them, and they WILL have it, unless their life is cut short somehow, be it and accident or MURDER (taking life with intent in this case)

like i said, would you rather live or die? ask yourself this before even chosing to abort a baby

A baby is living. A baby is a human. Why do some of you want to kill them?

"The baby won´t feel anything! It doesn´t know we kill him/her!! It doesn´t even know it´s alive!!"

This seems to be the best argument for many while debating abortion.
Well, you don´t feel anything if I first knock you unconscious and then kill you with a bullet in your head, do you? Is then the killing justified because you didn´t feel it?
Braindead people doesn´t feel pain or know what happens if we execute them. Shall it be legal to kill these?

So many are against killing pedophiles and murdurers. What I don´t get is why those people think it is totaly ok to kill a baby. What happened to the humanity?

wow!!! every time I read one of your post I agree with you Alrowan

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but after reading this

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who are we to deny ayone that right to LIFE.

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Are you for the death penalty?

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Originally Posted by ceasar010

wow!!! every time I read one of your post I agree with you Alrowan

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but after reading this




Are you for the death penalty?

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i dont believe in the death penalty, perhaps its because im a christian and believe in forgivness of others, and the chance that somone can change and contribute to this world. the death penalty like abortion is murder

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Well at least your consistant. Bespite buying the fairy tales of a backward middle eastern cult.

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Originally Posted by lars573

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Well at least your consistant. Bespite buying the fairy tales of a backward middle eastern cult.

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^
personal attack eh??

not the first time :p


back to topic i says

Lars,
As you seem to be some sort of expert on the pain that aborted fetuses/babies feel, I have some questions for you... if a 38 week old fetus feels no pain, and by eviscerating and vaccuuming it out of it's mother's cervix you're actually doing it a favor, why do they administer painkillers? For that matter, why do they administer painkillers to the baby/fetus (is it in or out of the uterus) during a C-section delivery? Why does the fetus move away from the abortionists scalpel after the first few cuts?

What exactly is your medical training that you feel qualified to make such statements?

Also Lars, would you kindly share the research you have performed or found online that led you to the conclusion that aborting a 3rd trimester fetus causes it less pain then being born and adopted out? I was really surprised to learn that I'm the only adopted child out there that has grown up to prefer having been born, and I'd like to get some of the research methods under my belt. My curiousity is piqued, and I'd like to learn what is unique about my psyche that I actually felt less pain with the adoption process then the abortion process (and prefer the former over the latter, even in light of the agony of having been adopted).

I guess I'm just human waste that doesn't know it would have been better off with a scalpel to the skull and having my brains vaccuumed out, and I'm trying to get on the right page...

A 38 week old fetues is a person, it can feel pain. If it came out it would have a 80/20 chance of survival. A ten week old fetus is not a person, if it came out it has a 0 chance of survival. It's more of an egg than an ovum cell. As for medical training, I have none. But I'd like to see your credentials. What I do have is the statements not 1 but 3 or 4 doctors and biologists directly and accepted medical theory about the devlopment of a human fetus. They state that a 10 week old fetus feels nothing as it has no nerves to feel with, where as a 38 week old fetus does and can feel. As for a soul, I beleive that dosen't come in until we are born. Why Because I don't believe that our souls and minds are seperate things.

Also if you have been abopted you have my simpathy, a sad life that is.

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Originally Posted by Alrowan

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personal attack eh??

not the first time :p


back to topic i says

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Personal attack no, I was taking a swipe at christians in general. It's what I think of the religion as a whole.