Scotland would have had strongest currency in Europe

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

You missed Wales. In any case, I'd prefer a pan-Celtic nation or union of nations. It would solve the issue of Northern Ireland, unless they'd all rather pretend to be Englishmen on religious grounds.

Brittany, Cornwall and Man can come too. Galatia still likes to think it's a Celtic nation, but I don't really know about that...

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what is a "celtic" nation?
most geneologists and genetic scientists believe that the actual "Celt" in the blood of people in the british isles is minimal to bred out. are you talking about language? It tends to be english except in tiny areas. Religion? incredible variation all over the "Celtic" world. would you include iceland in this union? they have higher levels of "Celtic" blood than the Scots.

unification based on blood is absurd
culture? not absurd, but the various celtic cultures have less in common than ireland and the philippines

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

what is a "celtic" nation?
most geneologists and genetic scientists believe that the actual "Celt" in the blood of people in the british isles is minimal to bred out. are you talking about language? It tends to be english except in tiny areas. Religion? incredible variation all over the "Celtic" world. would you include iceland in this union? they have higher levels of "Celtic" blood than the Scots.

unification based on blood is absurd
culture? not absurd, but the various celtic cultures have less in common than ireland and the philippines

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Well, Celts were never considered a racial group. I don't know about Iceland, though. I've never heard anything like that.

The Philippines? That's just silly hyperbole.

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

Well, Celts were never considered a racial group. I don't know about Iceland, though. I've never heard anything like that.

The Philippines? That's just silly hyperbole.

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why? Roman Catholic countries tend to have much more in common than non-Roman Catholic countries. Common religious values do much more to unify a people than language or blood. ideologies are both the most unifying and divisive things in the world. more than blood, most definitly

I would contest that. The whole idea was only a conjectural statement, however, and the bits about Brittanny, Cornwall and Man half tongue-in-cheek.

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

I would contest that. The whole idea was only a conjectural statement, however, and the bits about Brittanny, Cornwall and Man half tongue-in-cheek.

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King Malcolm might not get the full effect of the punch-line. BTW - I said TEND to have more in common because countries with high levels of Roman Catholicism in the modern age TEND to have similar humanitarian concerns and spiritual superstition. Other Religions may not have the same character as the RC church because they lack the hierarchical and totalitarian nature of the RC church leadership. I probably shouldnt have included ALL religions in my previous statement.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

King Malcolm might not get the full effect of the punch-line. BTW - I said TEND to have more in common because countries with high levels of Roman Catholicism in the modern age TEND to have similar humanitarian concerns and spiritual superstition. Other Religions may not have the same character as the RC church because they lack the hierarchical and totalitarian nature of the RC church leadership. I probably shouldnt have included ALL religions in my previous statement.

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We'll have to ask him.

I think that Catholicism would be a boundary needed to be trounced in order to form a prosperous, post-modern society. Does it really seem that far-fetched to you?

What punch line...

There are two groups who are campaigning for that idea, NeonGod, the Celtic League and the Celtic Congress.
I have to say, that I partly agree with both of you. The two types of Celts are different -- the Goidelic (Ireland, Isle of Man, bits of Scotland) and the Brythonic (Wales, Cornwall, Brittany). If they did join, however, I would assume the Celtic Church would be the sensible option. But there are few places which are "pure Celtic nations", probably only Ireland. Scotland is a mix of Celt, Angle, Saxon, Nordic and Pictish (whatever they may have been) The isle of Man is Celtic and Nordic. Because of these differences, TuffStuffMcGruff is probably right.

Not this old clap trap again?

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He added that it showed how much Scotland would have benefited from independence and oil

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This is absolutely typical of a nationalist isn't it? Its MINE, this oil, all MINE, you can't have it. The voice of the kid who took his football home from the playground turned into a political party. Its pathetic. Wee Scotland? Wee bloody minds, the SNP, that's a fact. Bunch of small town bigots with chips on their shoulders IMHO.

If we discovered the worlds biggest diamond mine in Norfolk this same joker would be first in line holding his hand out for "fair shares for Scotland". They wouldn't be England's diamonds, you bet, they would be the UK's.

Last time we did this I linked the pages on the Office for National Statistics website that show that Scotland receives FAR more money per capita than England, and pays less tax. I can't be bothered to do it again. They are there, just find them. I'm sure Mr Lying McBastard of the SNP is familiar with the figures, which is no doubt why he choses to try to make political capital out of something 30 years old.

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From an American perspective, the UK is an extremely bias union. Something should be shaken up so that all of the member "states" are treated equally.

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God help us. We pay the Scots more, we give them a Parliament, we let their MPs vote on things that ONLY AFFECT ENGLAND (and wales), they certainly don't seem to be lacking any national identity I can see, the Prime minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer are actually Scots, if this is extreme bias god knows what equality will look like.

The Speaker of the House of Commons and the Secretary of State for Defence and the Secretary of State for Transport are also all Scottish.

It is silly that Mr Blair gave Scotland devolution, but didn't do anything about England. Although, if the ConservaTories get in and let only English MPs vote on matters which only affect England, then that will give the SNP fuel for their cause, saying that Scottish MPs are a second-class MP, and aren't allowed to vote on all the votes in parliament. In think it should be a case of devolution for all or no devolution. Mr Blair was too sly, knowing that he would have to keep Scottish MPs for his nice majority in the parliament.

However, the English shouldn't complain, since we had been under the boot of English MPs for the past 290 years.

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You should break of from GB if they are only taking advantage of you.Then you guys can join in a nordic union with the scandinavian Countries

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My idea of heaven. Get rid of all those Celts ~;)
England would be returned to the Anglo-saxons and the Tories would win an election.
No Scots or Welsh to prop up the Labour party.

English Taxation could be spent on England ~:)

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

My idea of heaven. Get rid of all those Celts ~;)
England would be returned to the Anglo-saxons and the Tories would win an election.
No Scots or Welsh to prop up the Labour party.

English Taxation could be spent on England ~:)

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I'm sure Wales wouldn't agree to this...

Although we could give Cornwall independence too as they are Celts as well. Like to see if they have a a surplus haha.

I'm sure all Celt-ness of Cornwall has been bled out over the past thousand years or so that they have not been a celtic nation

What a great idea. That would remove 6 Liberal seats.
I like your thinking ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Not this old clap trap again?

This is absolutely typical of a nationalist isn't it? Its MINE, this oil, all MINE, you can't have it. The voice of the kid who took his football home from the playground turned into a political party. Its pathetic. Wee Scotland? Wee bloody minds, the SNP, that's a fact.

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Not minding my own business across the Channel whatsover, I agree with this.

What if the Orkneys were to become indepent from Scotland in their turn? Wouldn't all of 'Scotland's' oil then suddenly turn out to be really theirs? Blimey, those few thousand shepherds could live like oil sheiks if we were to follow this line of reasoning.

IMO, the Act of Union has benefited Scotland to no end for three centuries now, what with them having full access to all the wealth and priviliges that Britain's empire has brought with it...

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

UK has a population 3 times that of Australia... at just over 20 million people,

But we can manage a Federal System... so I think that is a bogus answer that the UK is to small.

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I think that BKS was talking about geographical size rather than population size...

I don't see a need for a federal system. I feel British, not English (though that may be because I'm half Welsh...). Devolve some powers to national authoities, but keep the country of Britain. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

Scotland?

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Originally Posted by Braveheart

Freeeeeeeeedom!!!

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Sorry, just passing through. :book:

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Originally Posted by Marcellus

I think that BKS was talking about geographical size rather than population size...

I don't see a need for a federal system. I feel British, not English (though that may be because I'm half Welsh...). Devolve some powers to national authoities, but keep the country of Britain. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

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A federal system would allow the individual states to vote for state matters and the federal level to deal with national levels.

It is a defacto federal system with Scotlands local parliament, and as it is not evenly applied to all within the UK you have an unequal situation.

Equity is lacking in the system.

As some of you know I'm Scottish and I don't think we should be totally independant from Britain, I don't think it would be workable for anyone.

But this:

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We pay the Scots more, we give them a Parliament, we let their MPs vote on things that ONLY AFFECT ENGLAND (and wales),

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Is not only insulting, it's pish, as they say in Glasgow. You (England) didn't give us anything apart from the poll tax, we (Britain) agreed these things.

Anyway, if the Scottish people really wanted to be independant then they would be, do you honestly think that England could get away with sending in troops? Not in this day and age, and anyway, we could just ask our American friends to supply money and arms and fight a guerilla war, no wait that would be terrorism ~;) .

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Is not only insulting, it's pish, as they say in Glasgow. You (England) didn't give us anything apart from the poll tax, we (Britain) agreed these things

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And where in my post did it say we= England rather than we= the UK? And as for the poll tax, (which BTW we (England) got too in the end) I'll see you and raise a foundation hospital.

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Anyway, if the Scottish people really wanted to be independant then they would be, do you honestly think that England could get away with sending in troops?

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Eh? Where did that come from? Its not 1745 any more. Certainly not, if Scotland wants to go, go. Just take a fair share of the national debt, public sector pension liability and so on with you, and good luck.

The "We pay the Scots more" implies that Scotland has nothing to do with the decision, but fair enough I'll let it go.

The independance part started as saying that we don't really want independance and finished as a wee dig at the US, couldn't help myself ~;) ~:grouphug:

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Originally Posted by Ja'chyra

we could just ask our American friends to supply money and arms and fight a guerilla war, no wait that would be terrorism ~;) .

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Not if the Americans support it!

I've always wondered....

If there were a plebescite, like they do every so often in Quebec and in Puerto Rico, what kind of percentages there would be for the 6 counties to be:

Part of the UK, Part of the Republic, Fully Independent?

Thoughts?


Seamus

0% for full independence anyway.

A majority would be for remaining in the UK, although if they carry on as they are a more interesting questioin will be whether a majority of the UK as whole really wants the bother any more...

A good article in todays Grauniad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_I...570332,00.html

The latest census would give you an idea of what they want.

As for full independance, no there is no way Northern Ireland could support itself

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And as for the poll tax

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Ive said this before and I will say it again.
I had no problem with the Poll tax. I believe it was a more fairer tax than we currently have.

But of course the Left got a few thousand nutters to march on London and for some reason the government backed down ~:eek: