A few questions about the Byzantine Emperors

I dont think thats the right thread for discussing the right pronounciation of the ancient.
But i ll mention my opinion:
First of all noone really knows 100% the exact way that ancient Greeks spoke.
Maybe the erasmian is closer to the ancient,but i think at least we,the Greeks,and maybe all,should read with the new Greek pron.
Thats because Greek is a living language-modern is a product of evolution-there is no real standard "ancient greek"- it differed in time and region.

As for the subject of the thread refers to medieval greek,but unfortunately most of the names of people as well as units are written with erasmian.
(i remember in MTW: Pronoiai Allagion-the byz.pronounced it pronie ! )

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Maybe the erasmian is closer to the ancient,but i think at least we,the Greeks,and maybe all,should read with the new Greek pron.
Thats because Greek is a living language-modern is a product of evolution-there is no real standard "ancient greek"- it differed in time and region.

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Yes I concure, but the orthography on the Pronoiai and other units is supposed to match the historical one, even in latin characters. We still write it that way and pronounce it the way the original pronoiarii (note the graeco-latin liberty here heh) did. The erasmian and the other pronounciation don't refer to medieval Greek anyway.

Yes, Erasmian is about Attic and pre... I have dismissed Erasmian long ago due to obvious reasons: Greek isn't a "dead language" as Latin, it has evolved over the centuries (Attic->Koene->Medieval-> and from here to several branches of Demodes-kathomiloumeni and the despicable anachronism the Katharevousa was, to todays Dimotiki). It makes only sense to take the most logical approach to the problem - since we don't know how ancient Greeks talked, what do we know?

We do know that even Koene was pronounced more or less like modern Greek, correct? So, why would the Greeks change so much during only a few generations (from the fading of the Attic to the domination of Koene)?

I think Erasmian is based on the wrong premise that there has to be a "pure" way of speaking Greek and that the ancient Greeks, before they mingled with others, are the only ones possesing that way. Also, it was meant to provide with the not accustomed to Greek westeners with an easier way to speak Greek.
It's a rather racist approach to a linguistic issue, prejudiced and bogus if I might say.

Ah, Mouzaphere, nice to meet you neighbour!

I am finally learning Greek. ~D

Useful for a Byzantium mod leader.... ~:cheers:

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I think Erasmian is based on the wrong premise that there has to be a "pure" way of speaking Greek and that the ancient Greeks, before they mingled with others, are the only ones possesing that way. Also, it was meant to provide with the not accustomed to Greek westeners with an easier way to speak Greek.
It's a rather racist approach to a linguistic issue, prejudiced and bogus if I might say

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Well I'm sure many from the opposite side could say something similar heh
Nevertheless one cannot brand all academic efforts that don't point towards a modern greek pronounciation of the classical languages as "erasmian". AFAIK Allen's "Vox Graeca" also doesn't offer a definitive 100% answer to all such issues. But it is undeniable that there has been quite a research on this matter, professors didn't wake up one day with such ideas and decided to impose them on all others;)
And there is evidence with which one can work, such as loans and mutual words with other languages, the grammar manuals found in Alexandria etc.
Also it took centuries for the changes to occur, and regional dissimilarities were more than evident. For example we have around 5 centuries in order for "ο" and "ω" to start acquiring the same sound and duration.
It doesn't defy logic that when one looks at all those ει,οι,ι,η,υ etc, he might start thinking that there must be a reason for such a diversity in orthography. I don't offer this ofcourse as a way of how classicists and linguists work lol
At an even simpler level, it took me also many years to understand why my grandmother of pontic descent often pronounced some endings like "-ης/η" as "-ες/ε" heh

edyzmedieval,
yes that's very nice, if you need any help at all (though I 'm not specialised in humanistic studies), I 'm sure many of the greek speakers here will be willing to help (plus I m quite interested myself in romanian, not to mention some dozen of other languages ;)).

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Originally Posted by Rosacrux redux

It's a rather racist approach to a linguistic issue, prejudiced and bogus if I might say.

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Finally somebody understands why I feel incredibly annoyed when this Erasmian stuff get's mentioned.

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Originally Posted by L'Impresario

It doesn't defy logic that when one looks at all those ει,οι,ι,η,υ etc, he might start thinking that there must be a reason for such a diversity in orthography. I don't offer this ofcourse as a way of how classicists and linguists work lol
At an even simpler level, it took me also many years to understand why my grandmother of pontic descent often pronounced some endings like "-ης/η" as "-ες/ε" heh

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The reasons for that variety in orthography was simply because greek had very subtle nuances. But they were certainly not as heavy and bland as the latin as is suggested by the erasmian school. That is just erroneous.

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The reasons for that variety in orthography was simply because greek had very subtle nuances. But they were certainly not as heavy and bland as the latin as is suggested by the erasmian school. That is just erroneous.

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If I asked for any bibliography I'd be making a fool out of myself eh;)