Erm...we have generally good relations with the commonwealth members. Unless of course we don't. Hmm.
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Erm...we have generally good relations with the commonwealth members. Unless of course we don't. Hmm.
The retired Gurkhas gets great jobs in security. They are the preferred choice in Malaysia and Singapore with a special VISA for just retired Gurkhas. They are interesting in deed.
They also act as a praetorian guard to the sultan of Brunei, yet another beacon of democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
I think they are just absolutely, incredibly, totally fascinating.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
To stay part of the Commonwealth you have to be either already be a democracy or actively heading towards it. It is based on who belonged to the British Empire in the last century.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
As for the Gurkhas they should be payed more. But they are not the only Commonwealth members serving in the British forces. There is a considerably portion of Fijians, and quite a few of them in the British SAS.
As for warrior race, genes and environment and culture add up to make a formiable combination. I have been in enough fights with involving Pakehas and Maoris (fighting on both sides...commonly referred to as a Rugby game)to know that there are some things that you cannot learn without experience and some things you cannot do without fitness... this was also true of us country kids vs townies...
However I do not believe that if you removed a Gurkha at birth and rasied him as a spoilt brat that he would still fit the mold of a hardened warrior.
To stay part of the Commonwealth you have to be either already be a democracy or actively heading towards it. It is based on who belonged to the British Empire in the last century.
Brunei is not a democracy neither is it heading towards democracy , yet it is part of the Commonwealth .
Ireland is a democracy yet it is not part of the Commonwealth .
Edit to add...Zimbabwe has "elections" is a Multi-Party Republic , yet currently is not part of the Commonwealth .
As for the Gurkhas they should be payed more. But they are not the only Commonwealth members serving in the British forces.
Nepal is not part of the Commonwealth .
All I can say is that all the Ghurkas I knew were proud to have served in the British Army, but as I said before, we should treat them better with equivalent pay and passports for all those who have served, no matter if it was 50 years ago.
I find it sickening that we will let in any pleb that can sneak onto a truck but wont give the same rights to people who have bled for us.
Ireland, it left the Commonwealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Zimbawee, it was kicked out because it has rigged its elections.
Brunei... true it is not a democracy, but its citizens have a better standard of living then virtually everyone else in the Commonwealth... a benevolent dictatorship.
Nepal is not part of the Commonwealth... it has been relatively independent of British or British Colonies rule... but I can't see others denying it access if it asked... but there is a special treaty between the UK and Nepal which if anything was a precedent for the independence of the British colonies and the setup of the Commonwealth in some ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Passports is potentially tricky if it undermines one argument that the Ghurka system benefits Nepal by people sending money back.
That said as I said in another post I grew up in a military town which had a Ghurka barracks and to be honest it would have been a lot better place if we had shipped out half the English born scum I grew up with and kept all the Ghurkas. So passports is good for Britain even if its bad for Nepal. Anyway its not a live debate as they get UK passports now.
As for pay and pensions, they should of course be paid fairly. Whether that means they need to be paid the same as soldiers in the regular army (which as someone pointed out now includes quite a few from the commonwealth) is arguable. But if the case was made that they needed to be paid the same I'm all for it.
OK Pape , I was just clearing that up .
So basically .... countries that are in the Commonwealth are in the Commonwealth because....they are in the Commonwealth .
And countries that are not in the Commonwealth are not in the Commonwealth.....because they are not in the Commonwealth .
And while some Commonwealth soldiers are in the British Army the Ghurkas who are in the British Army are not Commonwealth soldiers .
There , its all clear now ~;)
Interesting comparison AII, it seems there is always a bright side and a dark side.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
And thanks to everyone else for making the whole commonwealth thing as clear as mud.~;)
Side note: although I am familiar with what it is and how it is made can anyone tell me how foie gras tastes? It is not very popular her in the Dutch meat and potatoes land of West Michigan.
Is it really necessary to make such a case? My God man, they are willing to fight and die for you, and here you are wondering whether they should be granted citizenship and equal pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
How... fascinating.
Yes, so fascinating that the Court of Appeal, that well known bunch of racists, agreed in 2003 that the case had NOT been made.
So I'm not feeling too out of step with acceptable liberal opinion here in case you wondered.
Isn't the fact that their is so high a problem already ? If the best way to make money is to join a foreign army than a lot of people will obviously strive to do just that. But doesn't this mean that a lot of capable people are taken out of the 'normal' economy ? Kinda like how the Telecom and related sector are buying up all workers in India ?
Now I'm not saying you should pay them less of course, it just seems like a lose-lose situation...:hide:
Maybe the Gurkhas are not entitled to it under existing agreements, but I feel that the British government should have granted it because it is the decent thing to do. If acceptable liberal opinion in your country is different, then screw acceptable liberal opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
Why don't you ask what the individuals who join the Gurkha Regiments think about their situation. If they are happy with it - then it is acceptable to screw the liberial opinion on this political opinion.... But that would probably run counter to your postion of attempting to prove how bad the situation is - and that they are not willing particapants in joining the Gurkha Regiments in service to the British Crown.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Eh? Did you follow the discussion? Liberal opinion says that they are happy, apparently. Or should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Anyhoo, did anyone ever wonder why in one and the same Magar or Gurung family, one man can be a Gurkha and his brother or cousin a Maoist guerilla? It seems that some repatriated Gurkhas have taken to training the Maoists to help them fight the western-inspired counterinsurgency tactics of Kathmandu. The Indians are really worried about this since it might 'infect' their own Gurkha regiments.
Isn't it totally, extremely, mesmerisingly fascinating?
Definitions of fascinate on the Web:
intrigue: cause to be interested or curious
to render motionless, as with a fixed stare or by arousing terror or awe; "The snake charmer fascinates the cobra"
capture: attract; cause to be enamored; "She captured all the men's hearts"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
I think the AdrianII's original objection was to the use of 'fascinate' by several posters (including me). My meaning was the 'intrigue' bit, not the 'enamored' stuff. I find it fascinating (intriguing) that this holdover from colonial days not only exists, but thrives.
The US actively recruits outside its borders also, but the Guamanian, Filipino, Samoan, etc recruits are assimilated into regular units, since 1949.
Same here, about the intention of 'fascinate'.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Your postion does not make sense - considering that the individuals who partake in the enlistment into the Ghurka Regiments do it at their free will.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
So taking a chance to improve your postion in life by joining the military - is not an option in your opinion - at least that is the impression that you are leaving with your posts.
So what can the citizens of Nepal do to improve thier own individual postion in life?
Notice how poor the country of Nepal is - does it have an industry base to replace the income that is sent back to family?
Does Nepal have any natural resources to provide capital so that the infrastucture can be built to bring jobs into the country.
If Nepal allows more manafacturing companies to come in to use the labor pool available at the current labor wage rates for Nepal - (which by the way would still not come close to what enlisting into the Ghurka Regiment does for the family - at least not for several years)- that would improve the economy - but how will the goods be transported to other parts of the world. And Manafacturing would not improve the lot of those who live in the far corners of Nepal - its kind of hard for a land-locked country that is mountainous to have a viable export manafacturing start-up.
Then maybe India should pay thier Gurkha's more. A little healthy fear does the government good.Quote:
Anyhoo, did anyone ever wonder why in one and the same Magar or Gurung family, one man can be a Gurkha and his brother or cousin a Maoist guerilla? It seems that some repatriated Gurkhas have taken to training the Maoists to help them fight the western-inspired counterinsurgency tactics of Kathmandu. The Indians are really worried about this since it might 'infect' their own Gurkha regiments.
The politics of the area are indeed fascinating.Quote:
Isn't it totally, extremely, mesmerisingly fascinating?
It does, but all the good jobs are taken by Brahmans who also have by far the most political clout. I don't blame Gurkhas for accepting foreign military service jobs. As usual with cheap Third World labour, they are exploited in a collaboration between internal and foreign elites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Then blame the Brahman sect for taking the jobs from all the other sects in NepalQuote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
However the Gurkha's are not cheap third world labour - they are trained and held in esteem by many both in thier own country and outside.Quote:
I don't blame Gurkhas for accepting foreign military service jobs. As usual with cheap Third World labour, they are exploited in a collaboration between internal and foreign elites.
They are given a chance to rise above the provety level of their home - and improve the finicial status of thier families.
THe system was designed back when Britian needed manpower for its Empire - that they still recruit from Nepal for the Ghurka Regiments shows how much the British appreicate the support that these people have provided to thier country. Would you rather see this opporunity disappear for the people of Nepal because of your preception that they are being exploited.
Willing people that must pass a tough selection process - are far from being exploited.........
I just did. Except of course that they are not sects. Magars, Gurungs and other 'Gurkha' tribes are ethnic groups. The Brahmans are the ruling Indo-Nepalese caste in Nepal. Anyway, equal pay and optional citizenship is the least that the Brits could do for Gurkhas, that's just a matter of common decency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Don't tell me they receive equal pay! ~:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Just my two pence, but i personally think we (The British) are doing a good thing recruiting all these Ghurkas. For one, they are some of the best soldiers in our army, and two, the money they earn makes them seem like millionaires compared to what most people in developing countries like Nepal earn. They obviously don't care if it's dangerous. After all, the money they get could turn their lives around.
Would you risk your life for enough money so that you are set for life, or would you rather work a miserable peasants existance on 58p a day for all your life?
I actually realized that I used sects instead of castes on my way to work - oh well I see you caught that slip.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Very well postulated RL :bow: ...eloquently put. Concise and to the point. :bow:Quote:
THe system was designed back when Britian needed manpower for its Empire - that they still recruit from Nepal for the Ghurka Regiments shows how much the British appreicate the support that these people have provided to thier country. Would you rather see this opporunity disappear for the people of Nepal because of your preception that they are being exploited.
:bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Since '49...with one exception: KATUSA (Korean Augmentation To US Army) http://members.fortunecity.com/pictu...a_program.html . Those soldiers serve alongside US soldiers in Korea, but get significantly less pay (but more than regular RoK soldiers get, IIRC). We 'get around' the pay disparity by paying the Korean gov't for KATUSA services, who then pay the KATUSA's their miserable wage.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Having served at Camp Essayson's right next to a Defensive Line Bravo Infantry Battalion's Barracks - the KATUSA's that served in my unit were happy not to be in that Infantry Battalion.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Regardless of how poor the KATUSA is paid for thier service with the United States Army - they are conscripted soldiers in the South Korean Military. Its their government who makes money off of thier agumenation to the United States Military in South Korea, and our government which saves money from the relationship, its not an expoilation, in that regards since those individuals would still be required to fullfil their mandatory conscription service with the South Korean Military wether they do in in the KATUSA program or serve in the South Korean units.
When it started it was necessary for the defense of South Korea - and possiblity without it the Korean War would have turned out differently.
Oil makes virtually any system prosperous.... ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio