Jail for 'honour killing' family

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Originally Posted by English assassin

As far as the retribution element of the sentence is concerned I think it is long enough.

However this seems to be the sort of case where a deterrent element would also be justified. There are too many of these crimes, as well as the general attitude that you can carry on in Basingstoke just the way you would in Bangladesh, and its lawful in those circumstances to impose an exemplary sentence pour encourager les autres. Or to discourage them in this case.

IMHO the father should have had a whole life tariff.

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Seconded, from beginning to end. The terror caused by such killings does immense damage to their own community, first of all the women, and also to society at large. In my view the interest of society (as opposed to considerations of revenge) should always weigh in most when deciding a criminal sentence, and this is one case where the interest of society lies clearly in max deterrence plus lots of publicity to accompany it plus a campaign to cause a heads-up in places where the media don't reach. There is a whole tribal ideology behind this killing and it needs to be shredded, literally taken apart in public, to discourage others.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

There is a whole tribal ideology behind this killing and it needs to be shredded, literally taken apart in public, to discourage others.

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Yes! Indeed! And how do you intent to do that? I like the shredding part mind you, but that would require some serious stigmatisation no? Or maybe perhaps conditionally eventually dare I say it even assimilation?

It is the "culture" of misconceived honour that should stand trial here.
The real victim is the girl that lost her father, 2 brothers and her lover.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

So if a person killed 5 people in one day, then reformed within a week of going to prison, you'd let him out?

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No, I would give a lengthy prison sentence, firstly because a long period of time would be needed to observe the extent to which the person has reformed, secondly because the sentence acts as a deterent.

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Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff

18 years?
why that number?

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It's just a number between 15 and 20. Both are good, I only added the relevant risers of the conviction. That's just a valoration, if you ask me, no penalty will reform him, nor society, but there I go with my politically incorrect ideas again...:san_lipsrsealed:

I'd execute all of three of them. I agree with the Texanhere. :san_grin:

I'd deport them to Bangladesh and pay for them to have those jail terms served there.

No cable television for you boys.:san_laugh:

I oppose death penalty on principle, therefore I'd not suggest them here. But such crimes deserve to have a very, very strong deterrent: the convicts should be put to serve for life in prison. Honor killings are...barbaric to the extreme. It is the obligation of a free society to tear this concept down, as it limits individual's liberty to an extreme low. This case seems to be considering two major ugly things that I'd not hesitate to cuss at the notion:

1) The girl was considered a property by her father. Why, then, would he order the death of the man she loves, because he has decided to force her into another marriage? This, sir, should be punished to the greatest extent by law.

2) The murder being considered a legitimate way to "restore one's honor." One should never intrude upon another's life (one of the main principles against death penalty, in fact) based on abstract concepts.

The little scumbag was having sex outside of marriage , in his lustful irresponsibility he didn't even take precautions thus bringing another welfare sucking bastard into the world at tax payers expense . String him up in the town square and pelt his putrid corpse with rotten vegetables .
Uphold family values and decency , you damn liberals attacking the poor family , they may have commited a crime but it is only a crime because your poncy government is operating on a leftist agenda undermining tradition and the family unit .
The father and sons should be rewarded not punished , plus the so called victim was Iranian , that means that he was a terrorist who was probably planning an atrocity . And it was a mixed race relationship diluting the purity of the races .

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Yes! Indeed! And how do you intent to do that?

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By following your example: join demonstrations and beat the crap out of.. well, you know.. out of 'them'.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

By following your example: join demonstrations and beat the crap out of.. well, you know.. out of 'them'.

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Mcarthyism was better, really, after all, anyone might be a commie, whereas this way we are limited to brown people.

Sort of takes the fun out of all the questioning (though Asian babes under the bed could be more rewarding...)

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

By following your example: join demonstrations and beat the crap out of.. well, you know.. out of 'them'.

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I am glad you don't shy away from applying such a precision instrument.

I am very much for the family unit and a strong believer in marrage.
From what I have read the girl and the murdered person were' in-love' or 'lust' which everway you want to look at it.

Who knows what would have happened, if the relastionship had of run its course and the child had been born. They might have lived happily ever after or we might have another single mother demanding a council flat.

However, what gives the girls father the right to murder the girls boyfriend and then force his daughter to have an abortion, infact he has ruined more that one life.

The dead mans family have lost a son and a potential grandchild
The girl has lost the person she loved and a child. She has also lost her father and brothers. But I would imagine this is the least of her worry.

Also the girls mother has lost her husband and two children for a long time.

This is a very sad story, and I feel very dearly for both the girl and the murdered persons family. I CANNOT and WILLNOT have any sorrow for the murderers. I feel that the sentence is far to low and these 'people' should never be allowed to see the light of day again. If we cannot execute them, because of the liberal do gooders, then we should lock them away for the rest of there life never to see freedom again. They should be forced to earn the food they eat and not be supported by the state.

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

This is a very sad story, and I feel very dearly for both the girl and the murdered persons family. I CANNOT and WILLNOT have any sorrow for the murderers. I feel that the sentence is far to low and these 'people' should never be allowed to see the light of day again. If we cannot execute them, because of the liberal do gooders, then we should lock them away for the rest of there life never to see freedom again. They should be forced to earn the food they eat and not be supported by the state.

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I'm playing devil's advocate here BUT:

Don't you think a 16year old raised in a fundamentalist family that was ordered to kill his sister and probably had very little choice (maybe they even threatened to kill him if didn't do it, at least he would have been cast out of the family) in the matter does deserve, after serving a LONG sentence, a second chance at life ? God knows a lot of 16year olds do very stupid things. Okay, this is far beyond what the average 16y old does, and 'deserve' is probably not the right word here, but, wouldn't it be the humane/compassionate/even reasonable thing to do ?

Personally I feel that the current sentence (barring early release) is pretty good for the youngest son. he'll be 30 when he gets out, just enough time to have a second try at life. Hopefully he will have learned something and build up a decent life.

This of course, only applies if he shows serious signs of remorse, if he was just a cold blooded killer, let him rot. But I don't know the whole story.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

That was quite a good quote Lugh.

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Can't claim it I'm afraid, saw it in a sig on swordforums.com

@ doc_bean : He's shown himself to be either a murderous little sumbitch, or so influenceable to be a tool of anyone who whispers in his ear.

As others have mentioned, this is part of a tribal sub culture that needs to be smashed. Id've thought it'd be eroded by urbanization but unlike the usual course, immigrants aren't experienceing the cosmopolity of urban life that put paid to things of this manner in the west. Break up the urban ghettos, ban religious schools and religious paraphernalia in them, and teach a balanced cultural curriculum but with a heavy emphasis on the indiginous culture. It should all have been started decades ago, unfortunately we'll have the problem for decades more because of this.

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Don't you think a 16year old raised in a fundamentalist family that was ordered to kill his sister and probably had very little choice (maybe they even threatened to kill him if didn't do it, at least he would have been cast out of the family) in the matter does deserve, after serving a LONG sentence, a second chance at life ? God knows a lot of 16year olds do very stupid things. Okay, this is far beyond what the average 16y old does, and 'deserve' is probably not the right word here, but, wouldn't it be the humane/compassionate/even reasonable thing to do ?

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No

We all know right from wrong. Its illegal in this country to murder.
What comes first a countrys law or some tribal culture.

We all have a choice if we dont like the law we can always leave and more to another country that best fits the way we feel. At the moment, my family and I are seriously considering leaving the UK and moving somewhere else, with less liberal law.

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

We all have a choice if we dont like the law we can always leave and more to another country that best fits the way we feel. At the moment, my family and I are seriously considering leaving the UK and moving somewhere else, with less liberal law.

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That would rule out most of Europe, and most US states, maybe you can move to Texas :cowboy: