Hugo Chavez - Man of the People and Jew Hating Master of the Funk

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Originally Posted by solypsist

is this still about chavez?

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Of course. As well as Jews, Romans, socialism, ad hominem attacks, the proper classification of rabbits, and who really is the Master of Funk.

I think it's wrong wrong wrong to call Chavez a master of funk. Has he set the roof on fire? Has he gotten my back up off the wall? Is he the hardest working man in show biz? Can he get down on it? Will he take me to funkytown? Can he freak out, le chic?

I think not.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

Of course. As well as Jews, Romans, socialism, ad hominem attacks, the proper classification of rabbits, and who really is the Master of Funk.

I think it's wrong wrong wrong to call Chavez a master of funk. Has he set the roof on fire? Has he gotten my back up off the wall? Is he the hardest working man in show biz? Can he get down on it? Will he take me to funkytown? Can he freak out, le chic?

I think not.

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He probably could take you to the non-union Mexican equivalent of funky town, funky sierra. He has freaked out a bunch of times. The army is good for getting backs off the wall. Give him a chance he'll get down on it. Chavez is in politics they do more work in show biz in 5 minutes than James Brown did in 57.3 years (seriously I worked it out). Hell I can set a roof on fire Chavez has guys to that for him. So while he may not be a master of the funk he is a padawan of the funk.

Just out of interest, can anyone find a full transcript of this speech without the "...." bits missing from it ?

Oh , in English please , my Spanish is terrible .

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

who really is the Master of Funk.

I think it's wrong wrong wrong to call Chavez a master of funk. Has he set the roof on fire? Has he gotten my back up off the wall? Is he the hardest working man in show biz? Can he get down on it? Will he take me to funkytown? Can he freak out, le chic?

I think not.

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Haha. George Clinton, Kool & the Gang, James Brown, and (I forgot Funkytown) Chic. Is Chavez a Superfreak?

Only found bits of it translated from spanish on wikinews.

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"some minorities, the descendants of such who crucified Christ, the descendants of such who ejected Bolivar from here and, in their way, also crucified him in Santa Marta up in Columbia. One minority became owner of the world's riches, one minority became owner of the world's gold, of the silver of the minerals, of the water, of the good lands, of the petroleum, of the riches, and concentrated the riches into the hands of the few."

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The full speech in Spanish is linked on the site.

Link

He has obviously been spending too much time with the nazis in hiding who moved to south amrerica. it's no coincidence that one sees german architecture all over the continent, the most perhaps in bolivia.

I like it when world leaders say garbage like this. It makes them look stupid and lets them experience the wonderful world of diplomatic isolation. maybe he could let all the palestenians colonize in his country, i wouldnt mind so much them being in driving distance as long as we get the wall built in time.

Well, wether you support Chavez or not, I hardly see how some people can't and apparently don't want to blame him for this statement. If it was made by Bush, Chirac, Blair or even Amadinejhad (sp), everyone would have been like "OMG OMG OMG OMFG !".

The full speech in Spanish is linked on the site.

Thanks Ironside .

So ......Critics cite this as evidence bigotry, accusing Chávez of promoting Jewish conspiracy theories. It is unclear at best, however, who exactly the leader means by "descendants of such who crucified Christ," especially in translation. .....strange that , isn't it .
I never realised the Spanish crucified Christ .:laugh4:

It seems to me this is blown out of proportion. I read the specific passage (p.18 in the .pdf file found in the link above) and it's farfetched to accuse Chávez of anti-semitism based on this text. A close acquaitance that does most translations for the Venezuelan embassy here, didn't notice anything sinister as well, just the usual Chávez rhetoric heh

I don't see the word "judío" used at any moment in the whole transcript, not only in that particular speech but in the whole audition. Now if one could deduct something from his words then it's this: or he's a conspiracy theorist, or he really hates jews (wich I don't believe) or he's not refering to the jews, but to the rich perhaps.

It's well known that the rich descend from the people who killed Jesus :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

It's well known that the rich descend from the people who killed Jesus :idea2:

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Yes well you know one can always find a way to justify ones mistakes.:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Chávez

El mundo tiene para todos, pues, pero resulta que unas minorías, los descendientes de los mismos que crucificaron a
Cristo, los descendientes de los mismos que echaron a Bolívar de aquí y también lo crucificaron a su manera en Santa Marta, allá en Colombia. Una minoría se adueñó de las riquezas del mundo, una minoría se adueñó del oro del planeta, de la plata, de los minerales, de las aguas, de las tierras buenas, del petróleo, de las riquezas, pues, y han concentrado las riquezas en pocas manos: menos del diez por ciento de la población del mundo es dueña de más de la mitad de la riqueza de todo el mundo y a la... más de la mitad de los pobladores del planeta son pobres y cada día hay más pobres en el mundo entero.

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And here a rough translation:
"The world has (enough resources) for everyone, well, but it turns out that some minorities, the descendants of the same that crucified Christ, the descendants of the same that casted away Bolívar from here and also crucified him in their way in Santa Marta, there in Colombia. A minority controls the riches of the world, a minority controls the planet's gold, the silver, the ores, the water, the good lands of oil, the riches and [they] have amassed the riches in few hands: less than 10% of the world population controls more than half the wealth of the whole world and ... more than half of the planet's populace is poor and each day there are more poor throughout the entire world."

It's better reading more of the text in order to have an oppinion about it.
If you 've read previous speeches then it's easy to see that Chávez frequently tries to use the rich-poor antithesis in any subject he's talking about, even if some of his metaphores and theoretical schemes are less than successful. Bolívar is ofcourse a recurrent theme and here he just attempts to draw a parallel between him and Jesus, both revolutionaries and betrayed by petty people with vested interests (I can assume that in the case of Jesus, one can think of the hieratical elite and their doublestandards).

The usual Chávez fare heh
Actually, I wouldn't advise you to read the latest Venezuelan Constitution; it's a bit over the top with pomposity being quite a prominent element.

I read the original post a few times. Even though I have been a supporter of Chavez, I must admit that I think that statement is anti-Jewish. I tried to read it as just anti-rich, but I think his implication is clear. I think this is sad, but I still support what he is trying to do. I hope he learns something about bigotry. In L'Impresario's post, Chavez's statement does not seem anti-Jewish.

On the issue of who killed Christ, I think it is critical to the Gospels plotline that the Pharisee priests of Jerusalem sanctioned the execution of Jesus. It is also important that the common people, who had at first followed Jesus, turned against him with mob mentality. Like fundamentalist Christians today, they were not thinking people, but people who act emotionally on hateful rhetoric.

Were they Jews? Of course, many or most were, but that is only because the populace of that area were mainly Jewish. Jesus (the hero), Mary Magdalene, Jesus' mother, and the apostles were also Jewish. For that matter, so was Moses. What I'm saying is that most of the people there except the Romans were Jewish, so they will make up the bulk of the protagonists and antagonists of any Biblical story.

If the crowd who turned against Jesus had been any ethnic group, they still would have done the same. I have no doubt that fundmentalist Christians in the US today would condemn a modern Christ with the same kind of mob mentality.

Did the Romans kill Jesus? I think they originally had no motive. But when the Pharisess convinced them that Jesus was a threat to stable Roman rule, they acquiesced.

Did the Pharisees kill Jesus because they were Jewish? No, because they were the religious power base, and they felt threatened.

The longer translation (thanks for the work!) gives the speech a bit of a different tone.

As Soulforged sugggests, its more of his familiar have v have not theme. Yes, I think that kind of phrasing reflects anti-jewish reflexive thinking, but I'd be willing to concede that his central point was mostly focused on the more classic socialist staple of completely equivalent distribution of resources and wealth.

Its sad that so many folks take such a stance in their reflexive thinking. The old steroetype of the "greedy jew" is as intellectually annoying as is Robertson's "God as Petulant vengeful child" model or that Iranian leader's harping on the need to wipe Israel off the map.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Its sad that so many folks take such a stance in their reflexive thinking. The old steroetype of the "greedy jew" is as intellectually annoying as is Robertson's "God as Petulant vengeful child" model or that Iranian leader's harping on the need to wipe Israel off the map.

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Well here the stereotypes are drew in a form of joke, we always mess with the jews and make jokes about them being greedy or great negotiators, but that's just it, I think that the custom applies to all South America. This doesn't pass from a joke that's the limit, I think that the comments were misplaced as Chavez usually gets carried away in the passion, but I think that this isn't really a focus of preocupation as the jewish leaders might want to portray it.

I woulden't call it anti-Jewish so much, but rather unintelligent.

The Jews ofcourse will act like they take offence whether they really do or not. On the world stage it's more advantageous to stand up for yourself than be rolled over.

HEIL CHAVEZ! Für immer mein Fürher!

I always knew the man was evil. Lets hang him. Seriously. It'll be fun. We'll have a barbeque and kareoke and a hanging...maybe a concert too!

Fine but only if I get to hang GW Bush.

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Originally Posted by lars573

Fine but only if I get to hang GW Bush.

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Sure, we'd get a better man (cheney) anyway.

Hmm good point. Tell you what you can have Castro for the electric chair if I get Cheney too. :deal:

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Originally Posted by lars573

Hmm good point. Tell you what you can have Castro for the electric chair if I get Cheney too. :deal:

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Alright but I'll trade you rice for Omar el-Bashir then.

Fine. A pleasure doing buisness with you.

It's a deal. The three politicians are being transferred to you as we speak. A pleasure doing buisness with you.

And you Mr. Nolife...

Alright, this post was an accident and can be deleted.

How could I miss this thread earlier on?

It is the Pharisees that Chavez was talking about. :wall:

Remember them from your Bible class? The representatives of the haves who use subterfuge and twisted logic to defend their wealth and privilege from the have-nots? The guys Christ took his whip to, and chased from the Temple, before they in turn whupped him good with Roman assistance? The same class of people (Spanish priests and landowners) chased Bolívar from his beloved Venezuela and destroyed his popular republic of Greater Colombia because they were too attached to their wealth to share it with the ordinary folk. The landed elite who isolated him from his people and who were the despair of his deathbed in Santa Maria. Learn some language and read up on your Latin American history before you judge, bunch of illiterate gringos.

The original: 'El mundo tiene para todos, pues, pero resulta que unas minorías, los descendientes de los mismos que crucificaron a Cristo, los descendientes de los mismos que echaron a Bolívar de aquí y también lo crucificaron a su manera en Santa Marta, allá en Colombia. Una minoría se adueñó de las riquezas del mundo (..)’

In English: 'The world has enough for all then, but it turns out that some minorities, the descendants of those who crucified Christ, the descendants of those who chased Bolivar from here and in their own way crucified him in Santa Marta, back in Colombia. A minority has appropriated the worlds riches (..)'.

All you can say against Chavez speech is that some of his sentences are not grammatically correct, but that applies to most spoken texts particularly if improvised.

What a carfuffle about nothing. You'd think those protesting Jewish organisations had more pressing things to do than invent anti-Semitism. :dizzy2:

Link

You're really reaching on that one, Adrian. If Chavez meant such a particular target as the Pharisees, don't you think he would have chosen a more particular reference, or clarified just who he meant? "The people that killed Christ" is not to, to the layman, a reference to the Pharisees. Gentiles hear that and they think "Jews". If he wanted to specify the Pharisees, he could have said something along the lines of "Those that were in power over the masses that killed Christ despite what the people wanted" or some other such that would draw a distinction between the Jews in charge and Jews at large.

I know he's the perfect man to the Left, but you're gonna have to do better than that to defend him. He really put his foot in it this time. What's more, personal attacks, such as 'illiterate gringos' isn't going to do much to win hearts and minds to your viewpoint.

He leido el discurso en el espanol original. No puedo decir para seguro que Chavez definamente estaba tratando a incitar violencia en contra de los hebreos, pero puedo decir que eso es la explanacion con la mas credibilidad. No estoy como intelligente tan tu, Adrian, de curso, pero no estoy un gringo analfabeto tampoco.

Well, at least to me, what he meant was really quite obvious, but we all do want to pass judgement on issues we don't have direct or basic knowledge of, especially when it further demonises people who can be easily caricaturized, and one must recognise that Chávez is a good target indeed.

Jews always complain about antisemitism, it kind of loses it's edge. Toes that long are best ignored.