Armenia wasn't included, but for example the XL Mod has it. (well, as long as they're not killed by the turks, which is going to happen within the first 50 years).
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Armenia wasn't included, but for example the XL Mod has it. (well, as long as they're not killed by the turks, which is going to happen within the first 50 years).
What's the time period anyway?
Time period 1080-1530
So you include Crusader States, Denmark, Milan, Portugal, Scitland, Sicily, Teutonic Order, Armenians, Bulgarians, Serbians, Cumans, Lithuanians, and Timurids, YET somehow you forgot Bohemia, which more important for European history than either of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingHorde
In fact, if not for Bohemia's king Ottakar II, Tutonic order wouldn't even exist. He was the one who led a crusade into Prussia and built the city Konigsberg.
Bohemia deserves a spot.
Too bad you can't edit your posts.
Central America also had Mayas, Quiche, Miskito, Guajiro, etc. etc...jeez, Ian, I thought after all that I taught you, you'd know! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianofsmeg16
Anyway, here's what I'd want
--Spain split up into Castile-Leon and Aragon
--France split up into Kingdom of France, Duchy of Burgundy, Duchy of Britanny
--HRE split up into Hohenstaufens & Hapsburgs (MAYBE)
--Incas and Mayas added into Central (Possibly South) America
--Portugal
--Trebizond in a late period, as a successor state of Byzantium
That's all I can think of at the moment. If they can get 30 factions in the game, that will be great :2thumbsup:
Best usage of the new faction slots (in descending order of importance IMO):
- split spain in Aragon, Castile and maybe some more (I believe Portugal was already in? If not it's needed IMO)
- get another Italian city state (both Genoa and Venice are a must, maybe some more would be sweet to have also)
- Bulgaria (good map above says it all)
- Khazar (ranked along with the Khaliphate and Byzantine empire in importance during the early part of the game, but it's early fall after the start date speaks against it though)
- Lithuania (another often forgotten important empire)
- The Swiss (pikes - need I say more?)
- Serbia (better and more realistic coverage of the Balkans)
- some more steppe factions (Cumani, Pechenegs etc.)
- some more stuff to the east - Khwarazm, Timur Lenk's empire etc.
- a "spawn on event" faction to represent the hussites
- Sweden and Norway for some viking action and giving something more than the HRE for Denmark to worry about or direct their conquests towards...
You liked the Bulgatian map above?
You will sure as hell like this one as well.
Damn I can post attachments.
Here is the http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...e=post&id=5631
I'm all for the inclusion of Aragon but when you consider that the 'Moors' as a faction is an amalgamation and abstraction of several different Islamic factions that ruled various parts of Spain and North Africa during the period depicted in MTW2 then splitting Spain into two separate factions (Castile & Leon) would make both of them highly vulnerable to either the Moors or the French.
The great thing about the original Medieval was the intense competition between Spain and the Almohads and the uncertaintly as to which one would triumph and conquer the other or which would be the first to succumb to the pressures exerted by either the French or the Egyptians. This heated race to supremacy and/or extinction was especially noticeable in Early Era campaign games.
This map shows any lands that were ruled by Bohemian sovereigns.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLKHERO
You wouldn't happen to be Czech, would you? :inquisitive: I agree that Bohemia was important (what nation wasn't?), but moreso than Denmark? Lithuania? Portugal? ... if you say so.
Not I would not happen to be Czech.
Let's just compare the importance of these countries on their achievments.
What any of these did to be more important?
Lithuania was the only one that significantly expanded its borders, but if you look at the map, so did Bohemia.
Find achievements for each of these that cast a shadow over anything that Bohemia did.
For 12 months tops. That map you posted is only valid for 1305, when Wenceslas III was King of Bohemia, Hungary and Poland at the same time. He was booted off the Hungarian throne in 1305 for a Bavarian named Otto. Rudolf of Hapsburg grabbed Bohemia. And Wenceslas died in 1306 leaving Poland to Wladyslaw IV the Short. No Bohemia is not worth including, it is under the domination of the HRE too much.
How did you come to that conclusion?
I ask because it is not true. Few dates and names, but the overal info is wrong.
Here, feast on the netrails of knowledge and forever break free from the shackles of ignorance.
Read this:
"The Kingdom of Bohemia-Moravia continued its independent status within the Holy Roman Empire, and its territory further expanded so that by the end of fourteenth century it had become the leading power in Central Europe Inittially, the expansive interests of Bohemia's rulers were directed southward, when in 1251, even before he became"
it continues here http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...e=post&id=2540
and ends here http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...e=post&id=2541
If the long rule and prestige of Przemysls, enough so that they were called up to rule Poland and Hungary, doesn't impress you and neither even more extensive flowering of Bohemia under Luxembourgs, nor the undefeated Hussite rebellion, to stay consistent you must thumb you nose over every faction then. For how many of them that are even included on the list have actually accomplished more? You won't find many that is for sure.
When Przemyslyds' contemporaries didn't see them as inferior to any other great European Monarchs, than why should we?
I did get somethings wrong. The regal lists are always thrown together haphazardly. Should have went with the Geneiologies. I should have said that the map is only accurate for the period between 1301 and 1305 when Wenceslas II and Wenceslas III were kings of Bohemia, Hungary, and Poland at the same time. But the info is indeed good, poorly organized but good. Yours however is suspect to my eyes. The way that is tries to give the appearance that Bohemia had some kind of special status in the HRE is friggin ridiculous. HRE was, except for a few times when a strong emperor tried to change it, a loose confederation of dutchies/small kingdoms. Bohemias status was no different than Bavarias or Brandenburgs. Wealthier probably but not superior or more free. They were all part of the HRE and thus in any medieval game should be included as part of any HRE faction. The accomonplishments of the later Przemysls is for the glory of the empire not Bohemia. That's why they are not needed as a seperate faction they are part of the HRE.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLKHERO
Slkhero disagrees with the previous post.
[Moderator comment: edited to remove ad hominem attacks.]
Courtesy is always appreciated on these forums, SLKHERO. Feel free to debate the issue, but do try to be civil. ~:) Insults and disparagement fail to prove a point.
Ajax
Ajaxfetish is right, Slkhero. Debate history, by all means, but if you are going to do so, do it in the style of real historians and be courteous. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated here.
Does anybody knows what is the timeline of the game?
If it is 10th or 11th Bulgaria should be included as the main power in the Balkans. But if it is 12th or 13th century then Serbia should be included as it was the strongest at the time. Also somebody said that Bulgaria conquered Serbia. That is not entirely accurate. Organized Serbian state as we know it today starts at the begining of the 12th century. Before that we can only talk about serbian feudal lords who were vassals to sofia or constantinople, even budapest sometimes.
So choosing between Serbia or Bulgaria is a question of timeline, I think.
But let`s face it, balkan nations aren`t very interesting to western european or american market which is the most important market. So I have my doubts about balkan nations being icluded in the game.
Does anybody knows what is the timeline of the game?
If it is 10th or 11th Bulgaria should be included as the main power in the Balkans. But if it is 12th or 13th century then Serbia should be included as it was the strongest at the time. Also somebody said that Bulgaria conquered Serbia. That is not entirely accurate. Organized Serbian state as we know it today starts at the begining of the 12th century. Before that we can only talk about serbian feudal lords who were vassals to sofia or constantinople, even budapest sometimes.
So choosing between Serbia or Bulgaria is a question of timeline, I think.
But let`s face it, balkan nations aren`t very interesting to western european or american market which is the most important market. So I have my doubts about balkan nations being icluded in the game.
The answer is in the title of this thread, which has slid down to page 2 already:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60122
I agree, Bohemia was a very important factor in the region during some periods of the Medieval age. I did mentioned the Hussites above, but that wasn't the only time when there were important, for instance they put up strong resistance against the mongols in 1241 AD. If they include the hussites the faction should probably be called Bohemia and be included also before and after the hussite wars timeframe. By the way I didn't only suggest factions based on historical important but also based partly on gameplay aspects. For example for historical realism the HRE should be split up in hundreds of factions but that's not really possible to do - the amount of data the game must handle (and the performance of the game) approximately increases with a power of 2 when the number of factions are increased. That's probably the main reason why we didn't see more than 21 factions in RTW and should be happy if we get between 30 and 50 factions, or something like that, in MTW2.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLKHERO
Before anyone complains that their favorite Grand[sic] empire was not included look at the dates people. No one should say that they want a kingdom included because they did something great in the 14th century. Keep it in context! 1080, 1080 and 1080 are the only three dates that anyone should be talking about. If it's like M:TW they'll have different eras and maybe this now insignificant corner of the world will be represented. I can imagine someone screaming: I want Luxemburg!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
At Admins: It was unfair you removed my entire post and let his stand. Anyone with any knowledge of history would have backed me up on this.
Most of my post was not offensive. So thank you for erasing my half hout long argument. You really are on top of things.
That map is good from 1197-1306, as it sais it is. That is from time when Bohemia was officially recognized as a kingdom with hereditary rights (note it was a kingdom on several occassions before) to when the last of Przemyslids dies mysteriously on his campaign to Poland (when they controlled much of central Europe).Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Wencelaus III wasn't booted off Hungarian throne. His father came to get him as the country was breaking under the pressure of civil strife.
There were plenty of battles between Bohemia and HRE and the former won all except the last one. Most were during the time that Bohemia wasn't even recognized as a kingdom.
Battle at Tauss (1040) where the German Henry III was defeated by Bretislav I.
Battle at Chlumec (1126) Lothar III is defeated by Sobeslav.
The last one I am sure we know all too well.
SLKHERO, your post was likely to give offense in my opinion whereas the one I let stand was not. I am sorry you disagree, but please understand these kind of exchanges can quickly degenerate into nasty flame wars that no one likes to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLKHERO
I repeat - debate in the style of a professional historian (or as you would in a history class as a student) and there will be no problems. Your latest post is a good example of this style. Please PM me or the site admin, TosaInu, if you wish to discuss this further.
Serbia golden age starts at 12th centuy at the beggining Nemnic dynasty. Which last until the end of 14th century, and final fall in 15th.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
But it did got united somewhat earlier I think in 10th or 11th century.
Anyway, if they don't include it as faction I at least hope they include some unique unit from that are like Serbian Knights.
I`m sorry if I misinterpreted your words, but when you said "insignificant corner of the world" I assume you meant the balkans. But this game is about the past, not the present. The balkans were highly developed and had a high cultural value from ancient times up to industrial revolution, when started the period of decline for balkan nations. Therefore I think not including some Balkan factions in the game would hurt historical aspect of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
As the game starts in 1080, I think it would be most logical and most historically accurate if Bulgaria is included.
I would like to see Serbia of course, as I am from there, but for the sake of historical accuracy I will give my vote to our eastern neighbours :laugh4: