Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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I think this is an important point. I like to play without banners and find it extremely hard to see many units against the ground textures used in RTW when I zoom out. You have to zoom out in MP. So, I have to turn banners on so that I'm not at a considerable disadvantage, but even with banners on you can't always determine what kind of unit you're looking at when it blends into the ground texture.
well it looks like that has improved, judging from some of the screenshots with a higher camera point. Although that might be the result of all the high poly models the screenshots use.
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by Puzz3D
That's not true. Darkmoor Dragon and I complained extensively at .com and .org about gameplay when the RTW demo was released in August 2004. CBR measured fatigue rates and I measured movement rates, and we posted about how those rates affected the gameplay. Shortly before the game was released, a dev at .com responded that CA didn't see any problem with the gamespeed and wouldn't be changing it.
Well, as I say, splitting hairs is safer than splitting atoms. :thumbsup:
Almost nobody complained about gameplay and AI before the demo came out. Few people have complained about it in the short span between the release of the demo and Rome. Better now?
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
Almost nobody complained about gameplay and AI before the demo came out.
That's because they assumed up to then the battles would play much like the previous games. All the same, I think some people were complaining about evidence that CA was dumbing down the gameplay.
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
Few people have complained about it in the short span between the release of the demo and Rome. Better now?
I'm afraid I must disagree. As I recall there was an absolute torrent of dismay and anger after the release of the demo, with some longterm fans abandoning CA even before the game was released.
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by screwtype
That's because they assumed up to then the battles would play much like the previous games. All the same, I think some people were complaining about evidence that CA was dumbing down the gameplay.
I'm afraid I must disagree. As I recall there was an absolute torrent of dismay and anger after the release of the demo, with some longterm fans abandoning CA even before the game was released.
I must say that I remember much the same... I wasn't among them, but I'm notoriously bad at seeing bad stuff initially.
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by screwtype
That's because they assumed up to then the battles would play much like the previous games.
My point exactly.
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All the same, I think some people were complaining about evidence that CA was dumbing down the gameplay.
If there were any who were complaining before the demo, they had no basis upon which they would form an objective and reasonable complaints.
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I'm afraid I must disagree. As I recall there was an absolute torrent of dismay and anger after the release of the demo, with some longterm fans abandoning CA even before the game was released.
I remember there to be more of positive reactions, only later did some people began complaining, but generally the opinion was, to my recollection, is that it is a demo and that it does not represent the full potential of the game.
Now, basic point of my claims is that we have more reasons to fear the shortcomings of MTW2 then we did with Rome, even now, without demo, one year or more before the release of the game. Nobody can possibly seriously claim otherwise.
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
If there were any who were complaining before the demo, they had no basis upon which they would form an objective and reasonable complaints.
Yes, they did. They complained about statements from CA such as that they were aiming at a game a ten year old could play. They complained about hints from CA that this and that tactical element was being de-emphasized.
There were plenty of posts expressing misgivings about what was being heard from CA in the year leading up to the game's release. And after the release of the demo, the complaints became a torrent.
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
I remember there to be more of positive reactions, only later did some people began complaining, but generally the opinion was, to my recollection, is that it is a demo and that it does not represent the full potential of the game.
Some people said that, including me, but there were plenty of folks telling us we were deluding ourselves and that the demo would be an accurate reflection of the gameplay. By and large they turned out to be right.
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
Now, basic point of my claims is that we have more reasons to fear the shortcomings of MTW2 then we did with Rome, even now, without demo, one year or more before the release of the game.
I couldn't disagree more. I think we have plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this game, not only because of what we've been told about the game so far but also because CA are now in a position to be able to build on and refine the basic RTW game engine that took so long to create.
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
Nobody can possibly seriously claim otherwise.
On the contrary, I think nobody could possibly seriously claim that "we have more reasons to fear the shortcomings of M2 than we did with Rome" this far out from the game's release.
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
One thing nobody complained about is gameplay. Nobody complained about AI.
Nobody actually expected that the problems will lie therein. After Shogun and Medieval, our trust in CA was as firm as to be almost beyond of point of questioning them.
And then they delivered Rome; extraordinary game by the market standards, but in comparison to its precursors, it was rather heavily flawed.
Now, when people complain, they do not complain about historical inaccuracies anymore. People are now rightfully afraid that MTW2 will be merely recycled Rome. People are afraid that next to fancier maps and new features like finishing moves the AI will remain at the level of Rome…Or even worse… Hence, the gameplay would follow…
You are right: I guess I forgot about the demo's release and attributed the fuss about it to a sort of anti-hype. I have done my share of complaining as well, both about gameplay and about historical accuracy, but CA did try to improve R:TW and they did so with reasonable succes in my opinion. Therefor I have not given up on TW yet. However, some people seem to expect the worst because R:TW did not live up to their standards, and that is what I am protesting against. I repeat that we barely know anything about the game.
That said, a bit more openness from CA would go a long way towards restoring goodwill in the community.
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Originally Posted by screwtype
Yes, they did. They complained about statements from CA such as that they were aiming at a game a ten year old could play. They complained about hints from CA that this and that tactical element was being de-emphasized.
There were plenty of posts expressing misgivings about what was being heard from CA in the year leading up to the game's release.
Absolutely wrong. Most of the complaints were tied to the historical inaccuracies. At least on these forums, that is. I never venture farther than the Org as far as TW is concerned. All other complaints were sporadic, at best.
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I couldn't disagree more. I think we have plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this game, not only because of what we've been told about the game so far but also because CA are now in a position to be able to build on and refine the basic RTW game engine that took so long to create.
Only if you were satisfied with Rome. MTW2 will in itself contain merely the historical period, nothing of the gameplay or spirit of the Medieval, or Shogun for that matter. All the refining will apparently go into graphics.
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On the contrary, I think nobody could possibly seriously claim that "we have more reasons to fear the shortcomings of M2 than we did with Rome" this far out from the game's release.
One year until the release? Get a grip on yourself, that’s hardly enough to polish up the graphics in the game and make all the textures. If you believe that Rome is the best game of the series, believe calmly that the MTW2 will be more of the same. I fear to tread there as boldly as I once did.
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Originally Posted by Ludens
You are right: I guess I forgot about the demo's release and attributed the fuss about it to a sort of anti-hype. I have done my share of complaining as well, both about gameplay and about historical accuracy, but CA did try to improve R:TW and they did so with reasonable succes in my opinion. Therefor I have not given up on TW yet. However, some people seem to expect the worst because R:TW did not live up to their standards, and that is what I am protesting against. I repeat that we barely know anything about the game.
That said, a bit more openness from CA would go a long way towards restoring goodwill in the community.
Neither have I. I am not giving up on MTW2, not by far, but the current state of affairs leads me to believe that the game will be mostly like Rome. For me, that is rather discouraging. I am still hoping to be proven wrong, but the interviews so far, the elusive responses from CA staff, and unnecessary complications with the turns… I wouldn’t hold my breath.
As for the “timid” responses from the development team and their layer’s talk, that doesn’t help either. Of course, they are not obliged to talk to us at all, but it doesn’t leave a good impression.
But, the true reason I fear the CA won’t talk to us is following; I fear that they know that the one and only answer they can give us about many things not receiving enough attention (gameplay, AI, bugs) is the fact that they have limited time and resources, and that they must invest them into graphics and other game-selling features. I believe they would say “sorry, we know how you feel, we would like to do the things the same way you want, but we can’t, the bosses will not provide us with the time and money simply because it’s not cost efficient.” That is one answer the community would never accept, even if we would fully understand and support the development teams. Hence, they evade, deviate, elude and remain enigmatic, and will probably continue to do so in the future. I know that I would never take it against them when they would say “we are not sure yet about feature X, we are looking into it, how would you like it?”, but there is still the painful memory of the statements like “those are no bugs, those are features!”.
Still, I hope for the best. But now I do not expect the best anymore.
And would still love to be proven wrong. That shame I would take with pleasure. But for that, we will have to wait and see the final product.
Re: For anyone who hasn't read the UK PC Zone M2TW article
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Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
Neither have I. I am not giving up on MTW2, not by far, but the current state of affairs leads me to believe that the game will be mostly like Rome. For me, that is rather discouraging. I am still hoping to be proven wrong, but the interviews so far, the elusive responses from CA staff, and unnecessary complications with the turns… I wouldn’t hold my breath.
With this I have to agree. Yet R:TW has improved a lot since release. Perhaps MII:TW will take it even further. We can only hope...
