Europa Universalis III

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

It's...different. Paradox games are works of art. I personally believe that Civilization pales when compared to a Paradox game, especially Victoria or HOI2.

M2TW, IMO, you can't really compare to anything Paradox puts out. It's a different kind of game. You really have to try it. Once you do, there's no going back.

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Naaa Civilization isn't rated the 4th best game of all time for nothing.

In my mind, nothing can beat Civ. The depth it contains is so fascinating, and it also spans a larger time than EU from what I have seen. Don't get me wrong, I think EU3 looks like a brilliant game, and if I ever wanted a new game I would heavily consider it.

Oh and to me it seems that Paradox heavily favour Gameplay over Graphics, which I think is fine.

How is the multiplayer component? I would only really consider it if I could have a good LAN game with my bro...

The MP is good. Although you can't complete a game in a few hours. When you play in the internet, it can take long, because you need the people to show up at the appointed schedule. If it's in LAN it's easier to coordinate playing times.

Also, it seems there is a new MP mode, something about cooperative controlling the same country.

I downloaded and played the demo last night out of interest. I'd never played any Paradox games before so I wasn't quite sure what I was to expect, and I can't say how it compares to EUII or anything like that, but I was thoroughly impressed with the level of detail and depth that I saw. The only thing I missed after two solid months playing M2TW was decent real time battles, but I guess EUIII isn't about the battles, it's about being a ruler.
I know it's been said alot on this board, and probably elsewhere, but if somehow someone could graft, Frankenstein-like, the M2TW battle engine onto this game then I'd be a very happy man :2thumbsup:

Played the demo as Castile. While the game remains true to the spirit of the series, there are some notable improvements, notably the standing with the Pope and the HRE if you happen to be a member. It is great the way these are reflected on the map: On one occasion, the Papal States that were allied with me, declared war on France and Auverne, and I decieded to support them. This resulted in the expulsion of french cardinals from the Curia, and assignment of spanish in their place, giving me the majority, and therefore the papacy, which gives some nice binuses.

Colonisation is also not too easy or overpowered. The only pity is that to build anything decent (factories and such), if you want to avoid inflation, the only option is take a load and then pay it back. Which may or may not be realistic, but it is slightly annoying.

Now there are several types of troops to recruit as well, giving different bonuses to attributes. Military and naval traditions are quite nice, giving that little extra bit of customisation, and compensating for those stab hits when a warmongering ally keeps dragging you in wars (read Papal States).

I like this game a lot, it is a natural evolution from EUII, although, of course there are thing that still need to be worked on. An option to reinforce only certain kinds of troops, or only certain armies would be nice. As would be a dependancy of Military traditions on not only the time spent at war, but also the military installations and size of armed forces.

Overall, and without seeing the whole game, I'd give it an 8.5/10

Im playing a game of Portugal. Trying to focus on colonization and commerce. Im doing fine in the CoTs, however, I seem to be lacking funds to do any big time colonization. I get around 90 in yearly income. Austria is ruling the colonization game and seems to have an endless supply of funds. Is the AI simply making a high monthly income, thus increasing the inflation?

I like the national idea feature. It allow you to specialize your country in a nice way, getting little edges in trade (if that's your game), at the expense of land power and morale.

Havent quite gotten used to the map, I dont really like it. Also the interface seems kind of clumbsy. I prefer the old EU interface.

Quick question:

What is the purpose, advantages and disadvantages (other than you lose land) of creating vassals?

You can either create a vassal or demand some nation to become your vassal. By making a vassal you avoid revolt risk, religious conversion etc. Also, you get some of its income and it is your ally.

See it like outsourcing, it's basically what it is.

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Originally Posted by lancelot

But I have to say, I hope they raise the bar a bit with the graphics, those screenies didnt have me wetting myself...

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What was wrong with them? They looked fine to me - better than the graphics I've seen in other Paradox games. Although the huge Total War-style army icons on the campaign map are a bit annoying.

The one thing I really don't like about Paradox games is the continuous time feature. I wish they'd give you an option for turn based play. All the same, this may well be my next purchase. I never got around to trying out EU II, partly because I had no documentation for it, so this will give me an opportunity to start with the latest version.

BTW, did I read in one of those links that this game is due out in February? I hope I read that right, I'm hanging out for a decent new strategy game.

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BTW, did I read in one of those links that this game is due out in February? I hope I read that right, I'm hanging out for a decent new strategy game.

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It will be out on the 23rd of this month in North America, on the 26th in Scandinavia and Germany, on the 2nd of February in France, UK, and Benelux, and on the 10th in Australia (release dates for other locations aren't confirmed yet). Preorders are presently being shipped, and should arrive around the 23rd (depending on your location).

I've preordered it, having been convinced of Paradox's ability to make interesting grand strategy games from playing EU II and Hearts of Iron: Doomsday. Based on playing the demo, it does appear to be a major improvement from EU II. The game mechanics are more transparent, the gameplay options expanded and the game in general more dynamic, and the interface easier to use.

As others have said, the biggest strenght of this game is its open-endedness and flexibility. The game covers the entire world, and there are over 250 countries to choose from. You can start at any date between, approximately, the years 1453 to 1789; a lot of effort has been gone into research so the world is historically accurate at every starting date (there will be some errors and omissions, of course, since Paradox doesn't have unlimited resources). There are many options you can use to expand your nation's power; you can take terroritory and tribute through warfare, explore and colonize distant lands, gain wealth through trade, use diplomacy to strenghten your position, weaken your rivals through espionage, or focus on developing the infastructure of your provinces. There is no set goal, beyond making your nation stronger (the game keeps score). This isn't a world conquest game, like the Total War series is (though that can be done, if you wish to choose it as your goal).

The game is very moddable, and it is likely that Paradox will continue to patch and tweak it for years. That, combined with the open-endedness and flexibility, means the game will have a very long lifespan. I do not expect I'll have to regret buying this game.

I do recommend that people interested in the game try the demo. It has a few irrating problems that should be fixed in the final release, and only allows you to play up to 50 in-game years per game, but should verify if the game works on your system and give an impression of the gameplay.

Actually, now that you mention it, your description of the size and "open endedness" of the game worry me a bit. I've never much liked open ended games. I like something that gives me a challenge, a few enemies to best, I've never liked the Sim City type of game where you just develop your empire for no other purpose than to develop it.

All the same, I'll give the demo a go, and if I like it I'll probably buy it anyhow, but it is a little disappointing to hear this news. "Monster" games rarely provide much of a challenge in my experience, because they are usually just too large and complicated to be properly playtested and balanced.

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Originally Posted by screwtype

Actually, now that you mention it, your description of the size and "open endedness" of the game worry me a bit. I've never much liked open ended games. I like something that gives me a challenge, a few enemies to best, I've never liked the Sim City type of game where you just develop your empire for no other purpose than to develop it.

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It's more open-ended in what you can do than in the you-have-nothing-to-do sense, though. I know the feeling you're talking about when I play Sim City (where am I building that crappy city to? I kept asking myself), but the Paradox games -- except may be Crusader Kings, since it's so encumbered -- don't make me feel that way. I guess that's because I treat them as a chance for me to go and teach the French what it means to lose the Thirty Years War and half their nation to glorious Imperial Austria, which always make it fun.

Moreover, I think the event chains help a lot in giving the players a sense of somewhere that The Sims, Sim City, or some other too open-ended games (Morrowind?) lack. HOI2 is a prime example of that. Even if you play some obscure far-away country never historically touched by the wars, you'll still feel that the world is at war, and you'll naturally want to do something about it.

Of course, they aren't as focused as Civilization, but they're perhaps at least better in this sense than the Total War games we know and love.

Ehm, would anyone here know why my Demo of the game won't work ? The install is completed, and after clicking on the icon it gives me the classic windows error. Like sending a report to Microsoft 'll help me at all...

Is it a corrupt download*, or something else ?

* where did you guys download it from ?

:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Ehm, would anyone here know why my Demo of the game won't work ? The install is completed, and after clicking on the icon it gives me the classic windows error. Like sending a report to Microsoft 'll help me at all...

Is it a corrupt download*, or something else ?

* where did you guys download it from ?

:balloon2:

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Sorry can't help you there, I DL'd it from some obscure website I googled, and I can't find it in the browser history because I was using a different browser which just decided to crash!

I've been playing the demo a few hours now, seems like you can play as long as you like but you can't save. I'm finding it really hard. I tried playing Scotland and instantly found that I had virtually no money to do anything, and next to no income either. So I took out a $400 loan and bought an income producing building in each province. All the other buildings are incredibly expensive - would you believe $900 or so apiece when my annual income is only about 50, and even that is barely enough to cover the annual loan interest!

I kept sending merchants to every trade centre I could find but they only ever seem to last a few days before they get knocked off and you go back to zero income from trade. Eventually I managed to scrape together just enough to send a colonist to Sierra Leone, but the colony had negative growth right from the start and I couldn't afford to reinforce it.

Eventually out of sheer desperation I recruited half a dozen regiments and tried attacking England. I managed to take Northumberland more by luck than good management but meanwhile an English army marched right past me and beseiged my capital. I tried to beat that army off but got totally trounced - in fact in all the battles I fought, I lost about 10 soldiers to every one of England's!

In the end, I just had to quit. It was obvious I was going to get nowhere. And this is all on "Normal" difficulty! I shudder to think what "Hard" might be like :/

Try France, they have a nicer income and you'll be able to do some more stuff.

Oh Dutch Guy, check the readme file, it says something about some people having problems loading the game and how to fix it.

If that doesn't work, here's where I DL'd it from, I've never heard of this site before but it DL'd really fast, much quicker than some of the lousy commercial sites (which also make you register first).

Download link:

http://www.vgpro.com/games/pc/europa_universalis_iii

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

Try France, they have a nicer income and you'll be able to do some more stuff.

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Yeah, I noticed they're listed as a much easier faction to play, but I wanna play the bonnie Scots, dammit! :laugh4:

Anyhow, Scotland's difficulty level is about the same as England's, so you'd think they'd be a playable faction. Next time I'm going to take out that $400 loan, use the whole lot to build a massive army and attack England straight away to see how that works out.

Other than that, the only thing I can think of that might have been a mistake is that I didn't have enough patience. When I think about it I probably didn't play too long in terms of game time - maybe 10 or 20 years. It probably just seemed a lot longer because I was learning how the game worked.

One of the really annoying things that happened though, is that after my two five year loans expired, the game forced me to extend them. On reflection I guess this must be because I hadn't paid them off, I assumed I was paying them off the principal over five years but maybe I was only paying off the interest?

Well... it's a typical Paradox game allright... :inquisitive:
I always find it hard to get started in their games... you load up a game, it starts and I find myself looking at the map thinking "ok... now what...?" :laugh4:
So anybody got some good starting tips/strategies for the demo?

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Originally Posted by FesterShinetop

Well... it's a typical Paradox game allright... :inquisitive:
I always find it hard to get started in their games... you load up a game, it starts and I find myself looking at the map thinking "ok... now what...?" :laugh4:
So anybody got some good starting tips/strategies for the demo?

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Yeah, here's one. War is definitely the way to go for the Scots ~:)

For my second campaign I borrowed 400 gold and used it to buy a huge army of mercenaries and then sent them on a rampage through England. After a few years I had captured about half of England, and things were looking pretty good although the English army was growing.

Unfortunately, I neglected to keep a sufficiently close eye on my finances, and a couple of months before the end of the year (when you get your annual income) I ran out of funds and my entire mercenary army deserted! What was even more stupid about it is that I could have taken out another 200 gold loan if I'd been paying attention.

Anyhow, losing my army of course put me in an impossible situation so I quit the campaign. Well...maybe I wouldn't have quit, except you can't save a game in the demo.

If I hadn't made that mistake though, I was probably looking at capturing another wave of English provinces. By no means was I totally assured of victory though, because my stability was at rock bottom (-3 or something) and there was at least a small chance (about 1.5%) of one of my conquered English provinces rebelling, which could have made things a lot trickier.

All in all, a reasonably enjoyable experience, and one that certainly makes me think seriously about the purchase. One other little thing I noticed is that you can play an American native tribe, and I couldn't help wondering how well you might do if you captured most of North America by the time the Europeans got there! So there looks to be quite a few different faction options for gamers looking for a bit of variety. You're not stuck with just the Europeans to play by any means.

BTW in regards to your comment about finding Paradox games hard to get into - I don't know if it's my experience with HOI2 or not, but I pretty much jumped straight into this one without problems.

You are only allowed to play to 1522. It's a bad idea to borrow money. Merchants needs a bit of micro-management. I chose a national idea that gave me 10% more chance of competing for merchants. I was dominating most of the valuable european CoTs. In Andalusia I got 80 docats. Had 5 merchants. I was playing Portugal and colonized south america.

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One of the really annoying things that happened though, is that after my two five year loans expired, the game forced me to extend them. On reflection I guess this must be because I hadn't paid them off, I assumed I was paying them off the principal over five years but maybe I was only paying off the interest?

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Yes, the interest isnt paying off the loan. It's just mainting it, paying interest. After five year, you are asked if you want to pay it off or extend. In order to pay it off, you need 200 ducats in your treasury. If not more interest is coming for you. I liked it better in EU2, whenever you had enough money to pay off the loan, you could do it. You didnt need to wait for five years.

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So there looks to be quite a few different faction options for gamers looking for a bit of variety. You're not stuck with just the Europeans to play by any means.

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Well, seeing as there are over 280 nations to chose from, I'd be surprised if they were all european. I cant wait to play the jappos, having a huge empire by the time the portugese and black thorne arrive :D

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BTW in regards to your comment about finding Paradox games hard to get into - I don't know if it's my experience with HOI2 or not, but I pretty much jumped straight into this one without problems.

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Having played, EU, EU2, Vicky and HoI:DD I find it also easy. However, my experience with HoI is near to useless. What I learned from Vicky and EU2 is what is helping me.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

You are only allowed to play to 1522. It's a bad idea to borrow money. Merchants needs a bit of micro-management. I chose a national idea that gave me 10% more chance of competing for merchants. I was dominating most of the valuable european CoTs. In Andalusia I got 80 docats. Had 5 merchants. I was playing Portugal and colonized south america.

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You were pulling 80 ducats just from Andalusia? Phew, nice work. I saw that tech and chose conquistadors and explorers instead but I think that merchant tech will be a priority pick next time!

I disagree that it's necessarily a bad idea to borrow money though. IMO it's not a bad idea if you make good use of it. I had conquered half of Britain from my loan and was already almost breaking even, just from the growing territorial revenue and with very poor stability and no merchants whatever.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Yes, the interest isnt paying off the loan. It's just mainting it, paying interest. After five year, you are asked if you want to pay it off or extend. In order to pay it off, you need 200 ducats in your treasury. If not more interest is coming for you. I liked it better in EU2, whenever you had enough money to pay off the loan, you could do it. You didnt need to wait for five years.

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Okay. I'm still trying to work out why it made a new 200d loan available to me though, because I don't remember paying off the principal on the previous one!

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Well, seeing as there are over 280 nations to chose from, I'd be surprised if they were all european. I cant wait to play the jappos, having a huge empire by the time the portugese and black thorne arrive :D

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Yeah there's obviously going to be a lot of variety and a lot more possible outcomes, unlike HOI where the world powers are already established. In EU you can probably build up an obscure faction from scratch, before the Europeans turn up.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Having played, EU, EU2, Vicky and HoI:DD I find it also easy. However, my experience with HoI is near to useless. What I learned from Vicky and EU2 is what is helping me.

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The game mechanics are actually quite similar to HOI, but it doesn't look nearly as complex as Vicky. I took one look at that game and decided to avoid. Not only because it looked very complicated, but also because the fonts are so darned small I could hardly read them ~:)

Anyhow, the demo has definitely got me looking forward to the game. My only real concern now is whether or not it will be enough of a challenge. Time will tell I guess...

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Well, seeing as there are over 280 nations to chose from, I'd be surprised if they were all european. I cant wait to play the jappos, having a huge empire by the time the portugese and black thorne arrive :D

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If EUII is any indication, though, I'd think you'll have a hell of a time even surviving!

*mumbles something about bloody rebels, Paradox bias against legendary Japanese generals with weaker stats than your average European monarch, and bloody rebels*

Tried out the demo, seems fairly cool. I only briefly played EUII and never owned it but it seems true to the spirit whilst at the same time moving forward, a good thing. I played the demo 3 times, with the same three factions I had played in Crusader Kings (one easy, one medium, one hard) and had a good time with all of them. I wonder if you can import saves from previous games like you used to be able to?

Antagonist

Looks like I won't have to worry about the game not being challenging enough either. I'm finding it very tough to repeat my first good performance against England. That King Henry is absolutely outrageous! He kills my soldiers at a rate of literally 100 to 1!

In my latest campaign I bought 20 regiments and marched 9,000 men apiece into two English provinces. Quickly won the first, but King Henry with only 2,000 troops was tearing my other army to bits, so sent most of my second army to help out too. Even outnumbered 6 to 1, Henry only just lost the battle. I lost 7,778 troops and he lost a paltry 174!

Then later in the campaign he did it again. He marched into one of my provinces with only 2,000 troops, I thought, you beauty, he doesn't know I've got a huge army just arriving before he gets there! So Henry gets there and he's facing 10,000 of my men-at-arms against his 1000 maa and 1,000 cav. Guess who won the battle? Yup, Henry again. I had to sue for peace and resign from the campaign :(

If you outnumber you enemy with 10:1 the enemy army will simply surrender, evaporate from the map.

Really? That sounds like an exploit, I'm not sure I'd want to use it.

Are you sure that's implemented in EU3 though, or are you just talking from your EU2 experience?

Well, I never tried it myself, but I read on the official Paradox forum, that a developer said that and that it was WAD (Working as Designed). It's not an exploit, but it is supposed to reflect that on the battlefield that such a big army will press the lesser one to surrender. I think it is good, so that if a 10k army face a 1k army, the latter would retreat.

Edit: I found the thread at paradoxplaza: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...d.php?t=281820 it's post #13 by MrT. He is the guy who wrote the manual, so you can expect him to know what he is talking about.

YEEEEAAAARRRRGH I DID IT AGAIN!!!! :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:

I had England on the ropes with only four provinces left but I was so busy chasing their stupid little armies around from province to province I FORGOT TO WATCH THE MONEY AGAIN!!! :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:

The money hits zero and ALL MY MERCENARIES DESERT AND I HAVE NO ARMY. When there's 200 GOLD JUST WAITING TO BE BORROWED I LOST THREE HOURS PLAY AGAIN YEEEEAAAAARGH :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:

This is a serious omission with this game IMO. The game should darned well WARN you when your finances are about to hit zero, not just spring it on you out of thin air! That's the second damn campaign I've blown because I forgot to watch the money and I'm REALLY MAD about it. Especially since I also lost another campaign with a frickin' POWER OUTAGE earlier today!

Oh, sod it, I've played this blasted game half the day and got absolutely nowhere. That's it I'm off to do something more useful. GRRRRRrrrrrr!

Why do you keep getting mercenaries? Buy a regular army.

Can't. Scotland doesn't have the manpower. If I didn't buy mercenaries I wouldn't have a fraction of the troops needed to conquer England. By the time I got a decent army, England would have one too. Buying a whole bunch of mercs right at the start of the game gives you a big advantage.

I figure once I've conquered all of England, or as much of it as I can, I can just disband most of the mercs and then be back in the black financially, then just use my home troops to put down any rebellions I might encounter.

Anyhow, it should be fine once I get the actual game, because the problem with the demo is you can't save your progress, which is what leaves you vulnerable to losing hours of gameplay when something goes wrong.

BTW, thanks for posting that link, it was quite an informative discussion. I've actualy changed my mind about the 10x rule now, because you often end up with piddling little enemy remnants in your rear in this game and being able to stomp them with a 10x stack is very useful! Otherwise you end up chasing them all over the map for months.