Mediæval Auctoriso

Kill the Aztecs, and the Americas for that matter. They are a bit too weak, and not nearly a match for a developed European nation.

Assuming contact between Europeans and the Aztecs, late 15th century/early 16th century. Following is a rundown of advantages and disadvantages.

For one, European armies are more mobile, they have horses, the Azetcs do not. Two, Europeans are well armored, the Aztecs are not (this offers them some mobility, but again, horses are still an advantage) so the Europeans last longer in a straight-up fight. Three, the Europeans have gunpowder, the Aztecs do not (they even have trouble with finding sufficent metal for that matter). Four, Aztec ships cannot hope to match the larger, faster, better armed vessels of European powers. Five, disease, Europeans were, for the most part, untroubled by them, the Aztecs were ravaged by them.

All in all, the Aztecs are in a bad situation, plus, Americas are around for only around 40 game years. So, in conclusion, I would scrap them and use the faction space, model space and map space for something better (of course, assuming that there isn't that pesky hardcode around).

I'm not an expert on medieval history, so I do not know with whom to replace them. From the other factions, like I said, I do not know enough to offer educated advice, especially not for a mod that aims to be the EB of M2TW.

I really don't see why there should be TWO realism mods again... it never made sense to me with RTR and EB. Now its happening again.... oh well.

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

I really don't see why there should be TWO realism mods again... it never made sense to me with RTR and EB. Now its happening again.... oh well.

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Indeed. I always thought that a joint effort of the realism mods would make one, even more awesome mod. Anyway, good luck ony your mod guys. I'm looking forward to it.

Yes true, but did you not think that firstly perhaps they didn't want to work together " too many cooks etc."

Secondly if there was only 1 realism mod no doubt it would please almost everyone if not all, but 2 mods offers two perspectives of realism so one might get some things that the other doesn't and vice versa.

Also why limit our community to 1 masterpiece when we can have two?

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

I really don't see why there should be TWO realism mods again... it never made sense to me with RTR and EB. Now its happening again.... oh well.

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I can see that perspective, but then again you could say having RTR and EB "duplicate" each other has worked out for us, the consumers. We've had a polished RTR to play for a long time while EB was only in development or a beta. And EB has been able to use the time to do a lot of in-depth research and ambitious stuff with the scripting. There's also signs to me that the two mods are learning off each other's experiences.

But, I'm probably skating on thin ice here - all the best to all mod teams and let's keep any interactions friendly ~:grouphug:

Firstly can I say thank you for the feedback guys, the first week or so was always about gauging public opinion on the project rather than releasing anything approaching information, we will however be releasing some information later today or tommorrow (English) afternoon.

I believe it was caius who brought up the point about two seperate modifications again, forgive me if I'm wrong.

Yes I do see both the pros and cons of two "realism mods" been in production. I do realise it may be effective to work together to produce a finished project and all the other con's, however its not all negative.

Two seperate mods in the same kind of vein isn't uncommon, for MTW I believe there were two similar modifications, I can't remember their name but one was by WesW and the other by the BKB I do believe, this proved to be sucessful and offered a variety to the public to play with, something that RTR and EB are doing as we speak, I've played them both and I enjoy both of them, they are different and offer different experiences.

As for MTR and MA, I can safely say the following. If a merger was benefitial for BOTH parties, I don't see why it couldn't happen, if it would help both then it can't be bad. However, I don't know if MTR would want to as I haven't heard anything of the like from them.

I hope both mods, if seperate get along. I see no reason why we can't co-exist alongside one another if this is the case. I certainly wouldn't have anything against even helping one another, exchanging idea's, helping on certain aspects and so on. I have no issue with, like I said, both modifications co-existing with eachother, helping eachother and so on. If MTR are interested in anything of the sort then feel free to PM me, I certainly have no reservations against them doing so, I have declared publically MA's stance, I don't know what MTR think and I would be intrigued to know, but preferably in private. We shall see, but its impossible for me to say much without knowing the other sides opinions, so I will stop there.

Thank you for all the kind words, I did have a worry at first that there would be very little interest due to us been unestablished. An announcement concerning MA is pending, any collaberation/merger/"alliance" with MTR should be dealt with behind the scenes, but I have NO problems with us getting in contact to gauge opinion etc.

I am very pleased to see a rise in interest on MA and we have gladly breen able to get setup without falling flat on our faces.

I totally agree Simon, all of us should be able to get on well, we are all working towards the same goal, making a new, fun, experience in the next generation Total War engine. :2thumbsup:

Nice with 2 realism mods! I always preferred EB over RTR for a number of reasons (mainly gameplay and the thorough attention to every single historical detail) so I think I'm very glad for this extra mod even though it might weaken both teams if there are two instead of one (but as others pointed out that worked for EB, and I got the impression MTR is aiming for RTR style while MA is aiming for EB style). I wish you best of luck although I don't think I'll be able to offer any help with it :2thumbsup:

Mediæval Auctoriso
A Call to Arms

After a week or so of announcing the project I now feel it is time, judging by a decent response, to outline our intentions with Mediæval Auctoriso, what we aim to do, what we will be doing with the modification and so on, but of coarse there are still some things we will be keeping to ourselves for now.

Game play or graphics?

It is always a fine balance to get right in a computer game, and it’s a criticism that has been used against Creative Assembly recently following Rome : Total War’s release, with many people disappointed that the game had seemingly gone down the “glitter” route. Mediæval Auctoriso aims to provide historical accuracy and as such both the aesthetics and the feel of the game must be altered to achieve this.

It is a well known fact that skinners and modellers are scarce on the Total War modding scene at the moment, most are already on a team and this is something we have had to take into consideration. I can confirm here and now that the main focus on this particular projects first release is that of game play, far more so than the graphical aspect. This is partly down to the lack of modellers available and partly down to my own personal belief that it’s the game play that will attract interest, an exciting game experience will always come above the graphical aspect of the game, I would rather we dedicated most of our time on creating an exciting environment for everyone to live out their empire building fantasies. Having said this we will not be neglecting the graphical area of the modification, it will undoubtedly necessary to at least modify a few existing models and input some of our own, however to leave it second in line of importance is entirely intentional. It is my hope that the game play the modification provides will spark interest, most notably from modellers and we can go from there, but there is also a long way to go until release and I am not suggesting that we would reject help on models, I can confirm that even if we obtain this help the first release will be aimed entirely at the game play aspect whilst a second release would come with new graphics, the bonus of this is that it also allows any modellers we collaborate with more time to produce the units models and skins, which in turn will provide a much more finished product.

Factions

This is an area of great interest for the Mediæval Auctoriso team and is, evidently, an area of debate amongst the community. As we aim to provide a fun and historical environment for players the factions we include is very important to us. We are well aware at some peoples distaste for the omissions of certain factions and we entirely agree that some factions do deserve their place in the game. Our only problem is the 21 or 30 limit, we of coarse will have a list of 21 but we are also compiling a list of an extra 9 factions, rest assured we have been watching discussions in the community regarding the factions people wish to see and we have been at work at compiling a list of “provisional” factions, we however won’t be releasing information on every faction we are including but in the next few days and weeks we will start to release some teasers and previews for factions we definitely intend to include and the rest pending confirmation of what CA are doing faction wise.

What I can reveal to you is the main intention with our additional factions at first is to plug gaps in the map, it is always boring when your fighting unestablished rebels which you can’t engage much diplomacy with whilst all those Westerners get all the fun. Anywhere with substantial rebels presence will undoubtedly get a historically viable faction to help plug the gap and add a new face to the region to make expansion a little more tricky for those who only have the rebels to stomp on and interact with.

Units

This is where the real changes will be made as most certainly it will be an area that is rather inaccurate for a start but one that can most certainly be improved upon in a game play sense, its an area we hope to make unique as far as MTWII modifications are concerned. This will also take a bit of explaining, so please, bare with me.

We will of coarse be editing and updating factions initial rosters, I am already pretty certain some units will not be there and some that are will have never actually existed that are, so this will be addressed, even if the units appearance in battle isn’t entirely accurate from the off, this of coarse will be remedied as the project progresses.

This is, however, where I will admit a certain aspect of the unit system could upset the “historical accuracy” lovers. I am all for historical accuracy, but we mustn’t forget that in reality France, for example, never conquered the Baltic or the Iberian peninsula. Here is where the unique aspect will come into play, though part of this will probably be familiar to those of your who played MTW modifications that followed the same sort of idea. Basically, we are going to put a stop to England for example building longbowmen in Antioch, it isn’t realistic in the sense of their actual appearance and it is doubtful they’d clad any similar style troop in.

This of coarse means your factions core and historically accurate troops will only be recruitable in their home provinces and provinces where they either were recruited or COULD be recruited. For England you will, for example, still be able to recruit say for examples purposes longbowmen in Northern France as its hardly such a huge shift in climate and environments that it would be entirely unrealistic to say they could never recruit the unit there. Now if they get as far as Antioch for example, it is a bit daft to presume that they would still be using the same style of longbowmen here and as such they would not be able to recruit them, but rather a different unit that is far more adapted to the environment.

Basically, you’ll get the realistic and historically accurate units in your home provinces and in ones where its is realistically feasible that your faction would, if they controlled them for long enough, be able to build these units. However, conquer further and you will be able to build or recruit mercenaries (this will be decided, it may be a mixture of both) that, although not historically accurate, are more adapted to the environment surrounding them. This may disappoint some historically accurate only purists but rest assured their main and core units will be accurate. This unit system is in place to reflect the fact that if a Empire expanded in real life, they began to change certain sections of their armies to adapt to what they conquered, France for example wouldn’t keep the armour heavy knights in the desert if they held territories there for an extended period of time, they would undoubtedly adapt to improve their recruits for that environment whilst keeping their historically accurate heavy knights on the Western European mainland to fight in an environment that suits them. In essence, the unit system looks to make expansion more realistic and even though the units themselves won’t be entirely accurate away from home your Empire never covered Europe either, this is to make making the alternate history your Empire itself is creating in the game more enjoyable and realistic.

Of coarse, this is a the basic idea and will be tweaked and so forth, but this is basically what we want to do with units. I feel it will make the game feel more like your creating your own empire rather than following a strict code and it will certainly make unit recruitment a bit more realistic as you expand, but we are keeping those accurate units in there and making them play a part in the area’s they really did such as the longbowmen at Agincourt, Crécy and Poitiers when your fighting the French with the English and so on. We are trying to make a fine balance between actual history and what history could have been like had your empire expanded the way it does under your leadership, hopefully this will make the game feel much more like you achievement, not someone else’s. Feel free to ask any questions on this as I understand it’s a bit complicated.

Additional Features

Hopefully we will be adding on some new Historical Battles and making our modification MP compatible, the “fantasy” units will not be playable online or in custom battle, so you will be fielding historically accurate units here. If we miss out any factions we may release little add-on’s known as Missing Links with these factions included, but I’m afraid if they aren’t chosen for the first release you will have to wait for these little additions that may or may not be added, depending on time constraints.

Conclusion

Finally, I hope we can deliver a historical modification that also caters for the alternate history you will inevitably create as well as been enjoyable. Any help is greatly appreciated and we are still taking staff on, so don’t hesitate to get in touch with me. If there’s any questions you’d like to ask I am willing to answer them so feel free to ask me any you wish. Thanks kindly for reading, Mediæval Auctoriso will be releasing more information as time goes by, but for now, thanks for reading.

And what NS forgot to mention is that I will upload our first concept art very soon lol

looking forward to the concept art guys.

Have you decided which factions to use yet? Will you have several starting dates and if so, which ones?

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Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

Have you decided which factions to use yet? Will you have several starting dates and if so, which ones?

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We do have an idea of who we'd like to include, we will of coarse keep this close to our chest at the moment.

There will indeed be multiple campaigns, again information will eventually come but more or less when its decided and we can give you a detailed enough account of our intent regarding these.

As for the concept art, I shall wait for Ian to get them uploaded, for now feel free to suggest anything you like that you'd want to see, discuss away it is always interesting to hear other peoples opinions.

Hello. I am a modeller. Your mod seems rather intriguing and i have some ideas.

Its late now though and im dead tired. Ill send you a PM tomorrow to better introduce myself.

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Originally Posted by shifty157

Hello. I am a modeller. Your mod seems rather intriguing and i have some ideas.

Its late now though and im dead tired. Ill send you a PM tomorrow to better introduce myself.

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Greetings shifty, I have PM'ed you myself whilst I have some free time.:2thumbsup:

PS - Thanks to Quietus for the signature!

Actually the English should probably never be able to build Longbowmen even in France due to the very different social climate..

Regardless, I'd love to join this mod! I'm quite fluent in medieval history, and my years of wargaming have given me a lot of specialised knowledge which would be very applicable. I'd be able to (and I'd love to!) help with geography and heraldry too.

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Originally Posted by anti_strunt

Actually the English should probably never be able to build Longbowmen even in France...

Regardless, I'd love to join this mod! I'm quite fluent in medieval history, and my years of wargaming have given me a lot of specialised knowledge which would be very applicable. I'd be able to (and I'd love to!) help with geography and heraldry too.

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Hi anti_strunt, please PM if you wish to offer your services, it will be easier to discuss things through PM rather than here. Cheers :2thumbsup:.

(maybe stupid) question here: Do/did the different modding teams cooperate in some areas?

You guys could focus more on the special charakteristics of the own mod & save some hours on the lesser important, sometimes maybe time-consuming parts of the work...or one group has a master in a special task (hoggy at BL) & can give tipps to others....

I just thought: Doesen't extra work on "don`t-like-staff" suck for both teams?

Well nevermind, only my 2 cents...(I learned the meaning of that expression here....and always wondered what it ment in "The Simpsons")....

Apart from that, I played and loved RTR & EB, and still do.....RESPECT out 2 both teams...

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Originally Posted by Subedei

(maybe stupid) question here: Do/did the different modding teams cooperate in some areas?

You guys could focus more on the special charakteristics of the own mod & save some hours on the lesser important, sometimes maybe time-consuming parts of the work...or one group has a master in a special task (hoggy at BL) & can give tipps to others....

I just thought: Doesen't extra work on "don`t-like-staff" suck for both teams?

Well nevermind, only my 2 cents...(I learned the meaning of that expression here....and always wondered what it ment in "The Simpsons")....

Apart from that, I played and loved RTR & EB, and still do.....RESPECT out 2 both teams...

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I assume you mean helping eachother as in MA and MTR? ITs been suggested but neither team has ever spoken to one another of such a matter.

At the moment MA does need its own members with certain talents, we couldn't rely on MTR, it wouldn't be fair and I'd feel more of a part of MTR than a single entity.

At the moment its touch and go as we've not really got a team.

I'm a big fan of RTR, and in particular EB, so if this mod is M2TW's equivallent, then I'd love to join. I can be a researcher, in particular for the Scots. Also, I could be a skinner for the mod, and perhaps a modeler, as I am currently learning how to use 3dsmax7 for RTW. So is it alright if I join?

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Originally Posted by Woad Warrior

I'm a big fan of RTR, and in particular EB, so if this mod is M2TW's equivallent, then I'd love to join. I can be a researcher, in particular for the Scots. Also, I could be a skinner for the mod, and perhaps a modeler, as I am currently learning how to use 3dsmax7 for RTW. So is it alright if I join?

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As I said before, please PM me with "applications" as such so we can speak much more directly.

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Originally Posted by Keba

Kill the Aztecs, and the Americas for that matter. They are a bit too weak, and not nearly a match for a developed European nation.

Assuming contact between Europeans and the Aztecs, late 15th century/early 16th century. Following is a rundown of advantages and disadvantages.

For one, European armies are more mobile, they have horses, the Azetcs do not. Two, Europeans are well armored, the Aztecs are not (this offers them some mobility, but again, horses are still an advantage) so the Europeans last longer in a straight-up fight. Three, the Europeans have gunpowder, the Aztecs do not (they even have trouble with finding sufficent metal for that matter). Four, Aztec ships cannot hope to match the larger, faster, better armed vessels of European powers. Five, disease, Europeans were, for the most part, untroubled by them, the Aztecs were ravaged by them.

All in all, the Aztecs are in a bad situation, plus, Americas are around for only around 40 game years. So, in conclusion, I would scrap them and use the faction space, model space and map space for something better (of course, assuming that there isn't that pesky hardcode around).

I'm not an expert on medieval history, so I do not know with whom to replace them. From the other factions, like I said, I do not know enough to offer educated advice, especially not for a mod that aims to be the EB of M2TW.

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I can't help but agree with Keba, when it comes to the Aztecs or any culture in the Americas before European colonization, it's not a good idea, they were using weapons of mostly wood, bone, stone and inthe case of the more advaced American cultures sharpened obsidian, and what match is that to Iron and Bronze.

What saved the Skaelings in the 10th Century from the Norse, was that there was not the mass migration to the Americas that happened centuries later. in open battle, man for man, the cultures of the Americas would have not lasted long, as

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For one, European armies are more mobile, they have horses, the Azetcs do not. Two, Europeans are well armored, the Aztecs are not (this offers them some mobility, but again, horses are still an advantage) so the Europeans last longer in a straight-up fight. Three, the Europeans have gunpowder, the Aztecs do not (they even have trouble with finding sufficent metal for that matter). Four, Aztec ships cannot hope to match the larger, faster, better armed vessels of European powers. Five, disease, Europeans were, for the most part, untroubled by them, the Aztecs were ravaged by them.

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and in the time of the Norse, the skaelings had some chance as long as they outnumbered the Norse 15 to 1, but man to man, cold steel, tactics and good armor will beat out soft leather, bone, stone, sharpened obsidian and wood. Or let us say what if Rome had been more advanced in seamenship and landed 5 legions in america with more to come, what would the indians have done against say Caesars 13th Legion or Nero's 14th or 16th Legions(I forget which one it was that was Nero's best). But in the end with all things equal, these native cultures never equaled the technological skill or Military Knowledge of the Europeans.

With the above true, imagine Saladin or Genghis or his grandson Kublai Khan riding through the American Plains, it would be as worse a slaughter as if the Europeans riding through, So the Aztecs are not a good choice, maybe another Asian, European or North African faction would be better?

What to do with the America's is certainly on our agenda, we may very well remove them in favour of European nations, it would be sensible if we are running out and would narrow our area of scope to the European battlefield.

Information regarding factions will be release sometime soon, watch this space.

I tend to agree about the Aztecs, some will enjoy the idea but personally I think their inclusion offers nothing. I would suggest replacing them with either the Mamluks or Ilkhanate

......Orda

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I tend to agree about the Aztecs, some will enjoy the idea but personally I think their inclusion offers nothing. I would suggest replacing them with either the Mamluks or Ilkhanate

......Orda

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Mamluks or Ilkhanate, either is a better choice, I like the Ilkhanate better though:idea2:

After some debate we have tenatively decided not to include the Americas. Of course this is subject to change depending on various things most especially how well the Americas work in the actual game.

All of these factions that youre listing have been passed around. Many are obvious picks. Others have generated some debate. And there are even a few that may surprise you. We should be able to give a (more or less) final faction list in a short time.

Its very difficult to give definite answers with so few details from CA.

Ilkhanate woul be great. I mean they were a major player in those days....at least in the first two thirds of the planned time period.

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Originally Posted by Helgi

Or let us say what if Rome had been more advanced in seamenship and landed 5 legions in america with more to come, what would the indians have done against say Caesars 13th Legion or Nero's 14th or 16th Legions(I forget which one it was that was Nero's best).

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I think you talk about the X Equites....I think they were his favourites.

oooppppssss, i am sorry!!! Where can i erase messages?

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Originally Posted by Subedei

oooppppssss, i am sorry!!! Where can i erase messages?

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Don't worry, the moderators will amend them for you I imagine.

And yes, the factions have caused some debate on the forums but hopefully we will have decided the final lists shortly as shifty stated. Imformation will slowly be filtered to you, the public, as time goes by.

We are still accepting members so feel free to offer your aid if you wish to.

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Originally Posted by Subedei

I think you talk about the X Equites....I think they were his favourites.

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Thanks Subedei:2thumbsup: