Increase Sales of Anti-Depressives -- Promote Secular Humanism

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

I would rather live my entire life in truth and agony then live my entire life in Ignorance and Bliss.

I hated anti-depressants and I refuse to take them... and I'm not even a scientologist.

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Well if you were a scientologist you would have just defeated the first part of your statement... :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Well if you were a scientologist you would have just defeated the first part of your statement... :juggle2:

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: Depressed and Ignorant... thats well...depressing.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

- It's a fool's paradise methinks.

If you can't understand there is a danger, you can't worry about it.

Ignorance is bliss. :laugh4:

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Well said, wrong topic though.

Two thoughts:

(1) Doesn't the entire premise of this thread smack of self-satisfied complacency, with a little bit of condescension thrown in for aftertaste?

(2) Where in this two-dimensional worldview do you put religious people who are not strict conservatives? If we attend church but don't worship the ground Karl Rove walks on, do we still need antidepressants?

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Hmmm...my Harvard study (Interesting Find... thread) found the opposite trend than that of the Skeptic study...

I'm a bit skeptic of Skeptic now.

*yes...earlier a punch on religious fanatics, now on militant atheists*

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Then this is the site for you. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Then this is the site for you. ~;)

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GAH...overuse of the word "skeptic"...

*gurgle*

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Originally Posted by kataphraktoi

Take my dog for instance, he's no Labrador but he enjoys the following:


- chocolate

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Chocolate is really bad for dogs. If it ingests too much, it can kill him/her...
I always thought you had to be on drugs to believe in the left's silly logic. Guess I was right... AGAIN.

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BigTex

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I like the way you think, this has got to go on sig.:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

(1) Doesn't the entire premise of this thread smack of self-satisfied complacency, with a little bit of condescension thrown in for aftertaste?

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Indeed. Hence my lack of remorse for pointing out, in response, that religious beliefs correlate negatively with intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

Indeed. Hence my lack of remorse for pointing out, in response, that religious beliefs correlate negatively with intelligence.

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You said this 3 times already...

Once in the "Interesting Find" thread where I was quick to point out that in the US, religious attendence increases with increased education according to a comprehensive Harvard study...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...53&postcount=9

Then I pointed that out again in this thread...reply 22 or 23 I think...

And I'm doing it again...:grin2:

As for the smaller studies of GPA vs. religiosity, it seems it can go both ways...

http://digitalcommons.libraries.colu...ns/AAI9910646/

And these "skeptic" studies just bother me... It's clear what their agenda is...

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Vladimir, you don't pull your punches, do you?

Merely being intelligent or educated does not mean one is going to be focused on solutions. That is more a factor in the personality of the individual, rather on the raw intelligence.

~:smoking:

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I apologize if I came across as harsh, I often tend to. My comment about intelligence reflects deeply held view that I have about life. There is a difference between inelligent and intellectual. The difference between the two is quite often action. Unused intelligence is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Two thoughts:

(1) Doesn't the entire premise of this thread smack of self-satisfied complacency, with a little bit of condescension thrown in for aftertaste?

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A little of the former, probably, but more one-upsmanship then condescension.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

(2) Where in this two-dimensional worldview do you put religious people who are not strict conservatives? If we attend church but don't worship the ground Karl Rove walks on, do we still need antidepressants?

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I hope not. "Turd-boy" is a right political operative, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Well said, wrong topic though.

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Dead on topic.

Those who are blinkered (religious) are living in a paradise.

Those who are secular do not have that luxury of ignorance and hence look towards chemicals to get relief.

BTW... I actually think there are proportionally just as many blinkered religious and secular people... but truth hinders smart arse remarks :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

And these "skeptic" studies just bother me... It's clear what their agenda is...

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Those who are secular do not have that luxury of ignorance and hence look towards chemicals to get relief.

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:laugh4: Someone has got to sig that!

''The downside is, religious beliefs correlate inversely with intelligence, scientific awareness and education: in short, the more religious you are, the less educated and intelligent you are likely to be: ''

geez how can you guys turn church goers needing less anti depressants into a ''stupid religious people'' thread! naturally you attack christians so of course it doesn't class as racism and im sure its nothing like the opinion held by the Nazis of the jews (a secular group ridiculeing a reliqious minority with no good basis in fact), but of course im ignorant as are most of historys best scientists and leaders (Einstien, Newton, Darwin, etc).

im not surprised that non religious people are (in general) less happy many of the rules you guys ridicule are designed with our happyness in mind.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

''The downside is, religious beliefs correlate inversely with intelligence, scientific awareness and education: in short, the more religious you are, the less educated and intelligent you are likely to be: ''

geez how can you guys turn church goers needing less anti depressants into a ''stupid religious people'' thread! naturally you attack christians so of course it doesn't class as racism and im sure its nothing like the opinion held by the Nazis of the jews (a secular group ridiculeing a reliqious minority with no good basis in fact), but of course im ignorant as are most of historys best scientists and leaders (Einstien, Newton, Darwin, etc).

im not surprised that non religious people are (in general) less happy many of the rules you guys ridicule are designed with our happyness in mind.

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Let me get this straight:

A thread is started, the entire premise of which is a not-so-subtle dig by religious types at secular types. Then, when a few of us secular types respond with some not-so-subtle digs of our own at religious types, you call us Nazis.

At least, I think you did. I'm not quite sure. The meandering, poorly structured, badly punctuated nature of that post makes it very difficult for anybody to figure out exactly what your point is.

:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Goofball

Let me get this straight:

A thread is started, the entire premise of which is a not-so-subtle dig by religious types at secular types. Then, when a few of us secular types respond with some not-so-subtle digs of our own at religious types, you call us Nazis.

At least, I think you did. I'm not quite sure. The meandering, poorly structured, badly punctuated nature of that post makes it very difficult for anybody to figure out exactly what your point is.

:dizzy2:

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I didn't call you Nazis, i meant that you were harping on about how much more inteligent your belief systems are in an extremely arogant way, saying how very brave it is to be an athisist and that you were aiming this in a way that would be considered rasism were it aimed at other groups (like the Nazis did) you turn this into some weird stawman about me calling you Nazis, geez your not that bad (methinks he doth protest to much?).

Im sorry you found my tone ''meandering'' i was trying to avoid argueing too seriously and being acused of being uptight (but hey i guess you did that anyway). english and grammer may not be my strongpoint sometimes but this is a games forum not a debateing society so your dig at my writing seems a bit below the belt...

???

Post Count +1??? :huh:

EDIT: Might as well make good use of this post...

I can completely comprehend what BM was saying. It really wasn't hard at all. Before questioning one's intelligence on a typing sample (which is more a question of linguistics or laziness) please question why it is difficult to comprehend...

Leave BM and ShambleS and all those bad typers alone! :shout:

First of all, I would like to point out, that in my opinion and experience with personalities at the Org, Byzantine Mercenary has been one of the most polite and amiable.

Secondly, and back on the topic (somewhat), it is my conclusion that secular or non-religious types are not more or less intelligent that religious folk. Although I have posted on that repeatedly...:

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Originally Posted by a man of golden words

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...53&postcount=9

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

I didn't call you Nazis, i meant that you were harping on about how much more inteligent your belief systems are in an extremely arogant way, saying how very brave it is to be an athisist and that you were aiming this in a way that would be considered rasism were it aimed at other groups (like the Nazis did) you turn this into some weird stawman about me calling you Nazis, geez your not that bad (methinks he doth protest to much?).

Im sorry you found my tone ''meandering'' i was trying to avoid argueing too seriously and being acused of being uptight (but hey i guess you did that anyway). english and grammer may not be my strongpoint sometimes but this is a games forum not a debateing society so your dig at my writing seems a bit below the belt...

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It wasn't a dig. I really am having a hard time understanding what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

It wasn't a dig. I really am having a hard time understanding what you are talking about.

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ok, well basicly what i was saying was that i find the idea that religious people are ignorant very insulting (perhaps my passion on this subject distorted my post a bit) i wasn't aiming an attack at anyone or trying to call athisists Nazis i was arguing that the idea that religious people are only religious because they are not clever enough to realise that their wrong is compleately incorect and would be a form of racism were it aimed at others.

I like most christians try and challenge and explore the reason for my faith and find athists writing this off as my ignorance arogant.

My wording may sometimes be a little floored, im not the best typist!

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

ok, well basicly what i was saying was that i find the idea that religious people are ignorant very insulting (perhaps my passion on this subject distorted my post a bit) i wasn't aiming an attack at anyone or trying to call athisists Nazis i was arguing that the idea that religious people are only religious because they are not clever enough to realise that their wrong is compleately incorect and would be a form of racism were it aimed at others.

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I understand. But it is also insulting to imply that non-religious people are drug-dependent worry-warts, which was really the opening shot of this thread. My point was that if a thread starts out that way, then return cheap shots (i.e. religious people are not as smart) are going to naturally occur, so you really had no grounds to get so bent out of shape about it.

And for the record, I don't think religious people are any stupider or more ignorant than any other group of people.

Well, I didn't have any trouble reading your posts ~:grouphug:

It may have been a cheap shot at religous people, but the whole thread started out with a smug remark against secular people.

This is the backroom after all...

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

ok, well basicly what i was saying was that i find the idea that religious people are ignorant very insulting (perhaps my passion on this subject distorted my post a bit) i wasn't aiming an attack at anyone or trying to call athisists Nazis i was arguing that the idea that religious people are only religious because they are not clever enough to realise that their wrong is compleately incorect and would be a form of racism were it aimed at others.

I like most christians try and challenge and explore the reason for my faith and find athists writing this off as my ignorance arogant.

My wording may sometimes be a little floored, im not the best typist!

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Ah, you missed the sarcastic tone that the philosophers of the .org spill those so-called "researches" simply just as an attack on Seamus' original source. I truly doubt most of them actually agree that Christians are, generally, dumb.

Like how I truly doubt that being liberal makes you depressive.

After all, Hurin Rules and Papewaio are obviously not two people to easily believe in such agenda-based "researches" without much scrutinizing on their part.

Not that this prevent the prejudiced, evil, God-hating and hated by God (yes, by saying that I allegedly confirm his existence, but I couldn't care less about semantics right now--ha!) me to laugh at the "dumb, ignorant churchgoer" analogy, even if for rather different reasons than the usual one.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

I understand. But it is also insulting to imply that non-religious people are drug-dependent worry-warts, which was really the opening shot of this thread. My point was that if a thread starts out that way, then return cheap shots (i.e. religious people are not as smart) are going to naturally occur, so you really had no grounds to get so bent out of shape about it.

And for the record, I don't think religious people are any stupider or more ignorant than any other group of people.

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yes that would be an unfair genaralisation, however the articles results were as agaist me as you (i am nowhere near being a regular church goer and the article was about compareing churchgoers and non church goers which is very different from compareing religious people and atheists)

The whole idea of religious rules is not to control people but to make them happyer (as i said) and although i know they do not always work i believe that on average they will make people happyer

...But seriously folks...you have to learn to view data and the conclusions drawn from them with a critical -- but not jaundiced --eye.

These polls report what they say they do, but what you read into them -- or what I suggestively teased from them -- is a process of interpretation.

Are regular churchgoers more likely to describe themselves (important phrase that) as "happy?" Yes.

Does it therefore follow that not going to church makes one unhappy? No.

Churchgoers have, by and large, made up their minds about a belief system and their role in the universe. The same may very well be true of the "anti"- religious, but the numbers are indiscernible because the categories cram the well-adjusted irreligious ones together with those who are ignorant/clueless/unsure/worried/searching. It's not a great stretch to guess that this latter slice is likely to be unhappy as it tends to go with mental turmoil of any sort. It may well distort the numbers.

I'm a happy churchgoer. Kraz' likely isn't a churchgoer, but it would be a leap to assume he's unhappy therefore.

As I used to teach about correlations. In virtually every instance, an increase in the number of churches in a community strongly and positively correlated to an increase in the number of prostitutes in that community. Is it reasonable to say that religion creates prostitutes? Of course not, another factor (overall population increase) is actually far more explanative of what's going on -- but the correlation works every time.

This has been fun. I now return you to your regularly scheduled backroom interactions.

Dear lord, a voice of reason and moderation in the Backroom. Burn him! He's a witch! The Devil has taken his soul!

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Churchgoers have, by and large, made up their minds about a belief system and their role in the universe. The same may very well be true of the "anti"- religious, but the numbers are indiscernible because the categories cram the well-adjusted irreligious ones together with those who are ignorant/clueless/unsure/worried/searching. It's not a great stretch to guess that this latter slice is likely to be unhappy as it tends to go with mental turmoil of any sort. It may well distort the numbers.

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To be more precise, what should be considered is that depressed people usually have a hard time believing in a supernatural force watching over them. Or do you hear them say "no one loves me... except Jesus"?!
There is a correlation but the causal connection is probably not that lacking faith makes you depressed but that being depressed lets you question your believes. From that does not follow that you can't be an atheist for different reasons.
BTW: The USA has a far higher consume of anti-depressants than European countries. I would argue that Americans are neither more secualar nor more depressed than Europeans.