Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenus
They were spying Afghanistan? Afghan spying Afghanistan for the Afghan government… That’s make a lot of sense…
A spy is an armed, ununiformed, person who has initiated hostile actions.
Here are direct quotes from the 4th charter of the geneva convention. Incoming truthyness run and hide backroom org goers.
Quote:
I thought you had to be a signatory of the various Geneva conventions to have them apply to your soldiers. And soldiers is the operative word as I believe they also have to be part of a proper uniformed state army too.
Part 1 , General Provisions, Article 4, paragraph 2
Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenus
They were spying Afghanistan? Afghan spying Afghanistan for the Afghan government… That’s make a lot of sense…
Part 1, General Provisions Article 5, Paragraph 2
Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention
Quote:
Originally posted by Goofball
Not "hefty" at all. If the gov't arested then held me for four years without charge or trial, then released me because they could not prove their case against me, the fact that they had released me in itself would prove that I hadn't done anything illegal.
Part 1 General Provisions, Article 5, Paragraph 1
Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
The Geneva Convention was created in Europe and did not conceive of enemies which were not like those in the European armies. Of course anyone that is not in uniform and fighting is a spy, as that is how war was fought.
America is laughing in how it can use completely outdated laws which happen to work for it in this case. No consideration is given to how the troops were supposed to get a uniform in the middle of Afghanistan. They has slightly more pressing issues such as the American backed forces.
~:smoking:
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
we cannot call these people spies as they do not so much collect information as attempt to kill there enemies, while they are not a uniformed army, they should be considered as lethal criminals...aka hung like the ciminals they are, i bet even rory would approve of that, seeing his countries rich history of hangings.
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
Here are direct quotes from the 4th charter of the geneva convention. Incoming truthyness run and hide backroom org goers.
Incoming truthyness ?
Right so you want to quote a few small clauses from a very large document and claim it supports your point Tex ?
Well for a start that is the convention on the protection of civilians isn't it , and you wish to pick out a piece like...Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.
In the case of the people featured in the TV program that started this thread , they are British nationals , Britain is bound by the convention .
Some of them were detained in Pakistan , Pakistan is bound by the conventions .
Others were in Afghanistan , Afghanistan is bound by the convention .
Sooooo, your point was ????
run and hide ? or would you like to go through each clause of the 4th and see exactly where the US is breaking it , then we can start on the 3rd and do the same .
You will find that you havn't a leg to stand on , let alone run .:book:
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
They are all criminals? Oh right - even the ones that weren't even in the country when the "evidence" states they are.
In a country in Civil war, and especially when the country is as poor as Afghanistan, how were they all supposed to get uniforms?
Did America inform the enemy troops that they required uniforms? Guess not...
IF America can prove their guilt (and you've had 4 years) unless you can prove they are not merely soldiers without a uniform that they were unable to obtain and were not aware they had to wear then yes I'd not mind you hang the sods.
Yes the UK has hanged suspects. It was found to be at the time one of the most humane methods of garbage disposal. It beats the hell out of electrocuting them.
~:smoking:
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
Quote:
Originally posted by Tribesman
Incoming truthyness ?
Right so you want to quote a few small clauses from a very large document and claim it supports your point Tex ?
Well for a start that is the convention on the protection of civilians isn't it , and you wish to pick out a piece like...Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.
In the case of the people featured in the TV program that started this thread , they are British nationals , Britain is bound by the convention .
Some of them were detained in Pakistan , Pakistan is bound by the conventions .
Others were in Afghanistan , Afghanistan is bound by the convention .
Sooooo, your point was ????
run and hide ? or would you like to go through each clause of the 4th and see exactly where the US is breaking it , then we can start on the 3rd and do the same .
You will find that you havn't a leg to stand on , let alone run .
Read that more carefully tribesman, the piece of the charter you just quoted actually deny's the british nationals the rights of the charter. Britian has maintained neutraility to the U.S.A. thus they are not regarded as protected persons. Part 1 General Provisions, Article 5 is the only rellavent part to the 2 british nationals here.
As for Part 1 General Provisions, Article 3. It has no rellavence to any held at guantanamo becuase they are not protected by the Geneva Charter in the first place. I'm merely quoting the Part 1 General Observation portions becuase it gives a perfect explanation as to whom is covered with out going through pages explaining it, its not cheery picking. Trying to put a near 50 page document on the org would result in nothing, far to long a document for the ADHD org goers on here. As to the rellavence of the charter here there is none anyways so why people are using the Geneva Convention Charter is beyond me.
Quote:
Originally posted by master of the puppets
we cannot call these people spies as they do not so much collect information as attempt to kill there enemies, while they are not a uniformed army, they should be considered as lethal criminals...aka hung like the ciminals they are, i bet even rory would approve of that, seeing his countries rich history of hangings
.
Precisely they are little more then small rebellions, treasonous criminals. IMHO we should let the afghani and iraqi hang them as traitors, or spy's in the case they are foreign. And MTP punctuation please. 100th post bwuaahhahahahaahhaahhahaahha~:smoking: .
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
“A spy is an armed, ununiformed, person who has initiated hostile actions.” Most of the suspects are Talibans and are Afghans. They were in THEIR country, attacked by US and other troops, defending THEIR lands and fighting as much they can. THEY DIDN’T INITIATE HOSTILE ACTION. For them, they were attacked… So, they are all but SPIES. So, if when attacked by night, the soldiers defending their country in pyjamas, according to you, are spies… That is a new definition…:laugh4:
Joke apart, the Mudjahidin are and were easy to recognise. As such, you can’t really pretend they were hiding.
“such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention”: That’s means he is untitled of the protection due by the law of the country, the Criminal Law. You can’t preach the way you want and change the rules. Either there are enemy, Geneva Conventions; either they are criminal, criminal procedures…
Re: Channel 4 - Road to Guantanamo
4 years? youre only allowed to hold a criminal for 24 hours without charges! This is illegal. Why cant my goverment male seceret prisons like the soviets wed be more efficent then much more...:mellow: Serously this is illegal and something should happen
