Hadrians Wall not in BI?

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

There's always the two walls that Caesar built around Elesia. That's probably the second best known Roman wall work.

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Yeah. But that is a military installation to battle down an enemy city. Such fortifications to improve your own armys defence are tactical decisions. Any limes and so is Hadrians Wall had not been military fortifications only, but had been of political use.

Clausewitz, the German military Philosoper make differences between field fortifications and what he called a 'Cordon'. If you want to go deeper into that buisness and dare to face with Clausewitz go on and read book 6, capter 22 of his book: 'On War' (German: Vom Kriege):

As my english is not proper enough to translate his old speak, I will use mainly my own words to translate. Replace the word 'Cordon' with LIMES/Hadrians Wall and it will fit to our discussion:

The use of a cordon:
A cordon is called a line of fortificated posts connected to each others, to save a territory directly. You can also save a bigger territory without forming a cordon indirectly: A big army seperated into several divisions can protect a territory properly due a combination of moves too.

Apparently such a long line of defence (the cordon) can only offer a very small durability. The intention of a cordon can only be to safe against a weak opponent. No matter if this is because of the enemy willpower is weak, or the forces able to attack are small.

Now completely freely by me:
The bigger the forces able to invade, the smaller is the use of a cordon. Against bigger forces a cordon can only serve best to slow them down a little bit.
The main use of the strategy in a war is always to be stronger at the battlefield. It requires too many soldiers to serve in a cordon to be strong enough at the battlefield when your enemy is big enough.
As for example: The Maginot line in WW2 sucked up too many French forces but they bound at German side. In conclusion the Germans had been stronger at the battlefield they went for, no matter that allied forces in total outnumbered them both: In total number and in quality of their equipment!

If you are great in reading German, you may check this:
http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/Vo...e/Book6.htm#22
Thanks to wikipedia that linked me to this place.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Meh, just line up a bunch of soldiers across Britannia, it's not that big.

And while we're on the subject of walls.

The Greeks around the pre-classical period also build a giant wall across the Balkan Penninsula when the Thessylians invaded form the north. No one remembers that one.

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Or the wall the Persians built east of the Caspian to keep the Sakas (IIRC) out; or (going back a bit) the wall the Sumerians built between the two rivers to keep out Semitic raiders; or (going ahead a bit) the walls the Rus built to keep the Petchenegs away...

Plenty of walls, but they never lasted forever.

Hadrians Wall WAS a wonder to those barbarians, celts,Woads, Saxons. To Wonder at something is in the eyes of the beholders and those guys would never have seen anything like that other than Stone Henge.

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Originally Posted by Kaldhore

Hadrians Wall WAS a wonder to those barbarians, celts,Woads, Saxons. To Wonder at something is in the eyes of the beholders and those guys would never have seen anything like that other than Stone Henge.

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So are you saying that epic stone walls should be wonders too? They were also wonders to the barbarians. They're also probably more impressive than Hadrian's wall. I'm taller than Hadrian's wall.

The Great Aqueducts in my opinion deserved to have some status on the campaign map.

In my opinion there should have been a new class of campaign structure, called something like Roman Achievement, you know like the Colloseum, the Aqueducts of Rome, and other great architectural wonders that came to early to avoid the title ancient, but too late to get the title of wonder.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

So are you saying that epic stone walls should be wonders too? They were also wonders to the barbarians. They're also probably more impressive than Hadrian's wall. I'm taller than Hadrian's wall.

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Dude Those Barbarians never saw epic stone walls....they DID see hadrians wall.


And no obviously I never mentioned Epic stone walls, so how could I be saying they should be wonders. Re-read my post, one day you will understand :)

Well in the eye of an Pictish warrior an epic wall around a city will for sure impress him more but parts of Hadrians Wall!

Both are impressive Improvements made of stone, while a big city is impressive too for people that only saw small villages before. There is a good point in the post of Tiberius.
Whatever, if there is any possibility to create a mod making Hadrians Wall to become a wonder of the world I would risk a look for sure. Maybe we can find some other things worth to mention like this. If there will be any possibility to allow a player to build such wonders, we shall allow other fractions to build their wonders too because of the game balace....

Hadrians wall should have been a wonder because:

• It was made by the romans to great effect

Im not saying it was as good as the pyramids,etc... But in its own right it did keep the barbs out.