Favorite Historical Character

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

This is where I dissagree with the wizard. What distinguished Caesar from Marius and Sulla was his vision. He had a vision what Rome should be. Sulla was a power freak and Marius was more of a day-to-day politician, although he was probably better general than Caesar.

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If Sulla was a power freak he would not have abandoned politics the way he did, would he?

Tokugawa Ieyasu was a pretty fascinating guy but I like the inventors too, like Leonardo Da Vinci or Heron of Alexandria.

Otto Von Bismarck is my personal favorite. He unified germany and made it 1 nation.
after him would be in no order:
Fredrick the great
Richard the lion heart
Saladin
Teddy Roosevelt
Neoplone
Friedrich Babarosa
Nelson
ghengas kahn
William wallace

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

If Sulla was a power freak he would not have abandoned politics the way he did, would he?

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And how did he abandon politics? I thought he died a dictator...

Nah. He was a dictator for a while, during which time he did his best to remove the Gracchi reforms, limit the power of the tribunes and restore authority to the senate. After that, around 80 BC I think, he was elected consul and retired during that consulate. All in all, despite being elected dictator for life in 82 BC he only used that for about two years; once he'd set Rome back on what he deemed the right path he abandoned politics all together, as far as he was concerned it seems he thought he'd done all he could. He lived out the rest of his years in his country villa, where he died a couple of years later, possibly due to excessive drinking.

Lao Tzu, one of the Taoist masters...RESPECT out!!!! (Rocker since 400 b.c.)

Subedei, military genius ending up writting (average) poems in the Chinese mountains after 40 years of constant batteling.....

Raynald Du Chatillion for being so symbolic for the crusades: wicked, stupid and mean....man he was a badass & his story always makes me smile a bit...U keep on asking yourself: "How could he?!?!?"

lawrence of arabia
vlad tepes
churchill
king arthur?

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Nah. He was a dictator for a while, during which time he did his best to remove the Gracchi reforms, limit the power of the tribunes and restore authority to the senate. After that, around 80 BC I think, he was elected consul and retired during that consulate. All in all, despite being elected dictator for life in 82 BC he only used that for about two years; once he'd set Rome back on what he deemed the right path he abandoned politics all together, as far as he was concerned it seems he thought he'd done all he could. He lived out the rest of his years in his country villa, where he died a couple of years later, possibly due to excessive drinking.

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Yeah, you`re right. But Sulla`s reforms were backward. Caesar is widely accepted among historians as the most important person for a transition from roman republic to roman empire.

Uesugi Kenshin, Honor and war.

I'd have to go with Otto von Bismarck. "Better pointed bullets than pointed words." And a great number of other quotes all came from him and he was a brilliant statesman.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Yeah, you`re right. But Sulla`s reforms were backward. Caesar is widely accepted among historians as the most important person for a transition from roman republic to roman empire.

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:shrugs: I never claimed otherwise, nor did Sulla.

sun tzu what a legend 'the art of war' is amazing it explains tatics in a amazing way he is brilliant guy

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Yeah, you`re right. But Sulla`s reforms were backward. Caesar is widely accepted among historians as the most important person for a transition from roman republic to roman empire.

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What? Where did this go wrong? Augustus was the man that took the Republic and turned it into the Principate, essentially using the old Republican positions but concentrating them into the hands of a single dynasty. This entire system held until Diocletian finally acknowledged the truth and simply had himself called Dominus et Deus -- the beginning of the Dominate.

Caesar, on the other hand, did nothing of the sort. While Augustus brought peace and prosperity at last, and turned the entire Republican system into his own puppet, Caesar did not dare take that step. You mention something about him wanting to turn Rome back into a monarchy. Eh? You've either been watching too much of Rome or been reading too much slander on ol' Caius, since the entire idea was to make the populace revile him by depicting him as the tyrant king in the mold of Tarquinius, trying to take away their hard-fought-for power.

I think his only motive was power, not some far-sought idea of a renewed monarchy. The entire idea is ridiculous. Why do you think Augustus retained the trappings of the Republic? Because if he hadn't and had had himself crowned king in the Hellenistic mold, his support amongst the entire Roman people would've been gone in an instant. Same for Caesar. It would've been tantamount to political (if not real) suicide. No such thing as turning Rome back into a monarchy.

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Originally Posted by Rosacrux redux

I find Alkiviades (Alkibiades) of Athens the most intriguing personality of the ancient world, and maybe of all times. Extremely capable, political genious, unlimited potential, great "behind the scenes" person, very able military commander, was also a serious case of degradation, decadence, hedonist, self-loathe, immoral bastard... an extremely complicated personality, but with a sole aim: his own well beeing. He pretty much shaped the history of the Greek world, by determining by his actions the outcome of the pelopponesian war.

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His legacy goes further than that. When the Spartans received a prophecy from Delphi saying that they would fall if there was a crippled kingship, the throne was not going to go to the lame Agesilaus, but to someone else (forgot who). However, the other king (Laomedon?) wanted Agesilaus for his own personal benefit, and so spread the word that the other contender to the throne was conceived when Alkibiades visited Sparta and had an affair with the heir's mother. This of course meant that Alkibiades became the king. He then spelled doom for Sparta, pretty much starting the Corinthian War on his own when a lot of respect was given to Thebes during a meeting. This sparked off the war that lead to Leuktra and the crushing of the Spartan military superiority and lifestyle.

EDIT: almost forgot.
Sun Tzu - The art of war is still the best military book there is.
Sun Yat Sen - unified and modernised China, kicking out the Manchu.
Zhu Ge Liang - in one brilliant stroke he destroyed an army of hundreds of thousands by burning their ships and drowning them.
Hannibal - military genius, bold, quick thinking leader.
Pythagoras - brilliant mathmetician, philosopher and thinker.
Hippocrates - pretty much started the science of medicine, wrote the Hippocratic Oath and greatly influenced later medical thinkers such as Galen and Avicenna.
Avicenna - a child prodigy who learned medical theory at a young age, greatly advanced medical knowledge and treated the poor for free. Re-wrote the interpretations of Galen and Hippocrates by other Muslims, who had lost most of the meaning of their work through their translations. Great doctor, mathmetician, philosopher, physics, astronomer, thinker and even musician.

I'll go with Abu Al-Walid Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd, otherwise better known as Averroës. His translations and commentaries on Aristotle influenced Aquinas and many others, and could be considered a cornerstone for the post-medieval philosophical rebirth which led to the Renaissance and everything after.

And, of course, I'm fond of the revolutionaries like the great one in my sig. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Aenlic

I'll go with Abu Al-Walid Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd, otherwise better known as Averroës. His translations and commentaries on Aristotle influenced Aquinas and many others, and could be considered a cornerstone for the post-medieval philosophical rebirth which led to the Renaissance and everything after.

And, of course, I'm fond of the revolutionaries like the great one in my sig. ~;)

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Splendid choice Aenlic....he was very important, but often forgottrn [esp. by Western civs]

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Originally Posted by Aenlic

I'll go with Abu Al-Walid Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd, otherwise better known as Averroës. His translations and commentaries on Aristotle influenced Aquinas and many others, and could be considered a cornerstone for the post-medieval philosophical rebirth which led to the Renaissance and everything after.

And, of course, I'm fond of the revolutionaries like the great one in my sig. ~;)

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They always come back....:laugh4:

Anyway. Yalls chocies are wrong https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/70...glee3ez.th.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aenlic

I'll go with Abu Al-Walid Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd, otherwise better known as Averroës. His translations and commentaries on Aristotle influenced Aquinas and many others, and could be considered a cornerstone for the post-medieval philosophical rebirth which led to the Renaissance and everything after.

And, of course, I'm fond of the revolutionaries like the great one in my sig. ~;)

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They always come back....:laugh4:

Anyway. Yalls chocies are wrong https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/70...glee3ez.th.jpg

That's an impressive stutter.

On the tactical side, at least in modern times, I would have to say that General "Dutch" Cota, of WWII fame was one of the best. His taking direct charge of the debacle of Omaha Beach and getting the stalled attack going in his sector was instrumental to the outcome. Coupled with his outstanding leadership of the 28th Infantry Division, the Bloody Bucket, during the opening days of the Battle of the Bulge, leave him at the top of the class IMHO. If it where not for his decision to defend Clervaux at all costs, I believe that Bastogne would have fallen because sufficient reinforcements were not in position to reach there in time had the 28th folded. It was his firm, stobborn personality that gave his men the confidence to hold out. Not a bad performance from them considering the turnover of personnel during the Hurtegen Campain.