This attitude encapsulates, in a nutshell, the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
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This attitude encapsulates, in a nutshell, the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Word.
You know, whenever these topics pop up I keep recalling that funny reference to a Departement of Justice (or whatever it's now called, US ministeries aren't my prime area of interest) study I saw something like a decade ago that concluded something along the lines of Blacks getting type 50% harder sentences than Whites for equivalent crimes... Hispanics got something like 30%, too.
The exact numbers could be wrong - this is just my memory after all - but that's still something to mull on.
Good sir. With programs such as affermative action and ethnic qoutas for jobs in the USA. Racism will never end here. Thats not a good thing mind you. I fear there extremeists on these issuses will never sovle anything. just make the pendulm swing violently back and forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
I'd be prepared to place a bet that the people who got harsher sentences were repeat offenders.
In the city where I live (mostly white) the majority of violent crimes are committed by, wait for it...non-whites!
Guess who I'm most likely to get hastled by in the street?
No, it's not annoying white trash, it's trash from a different group.
Edit: please note that black Americans both perpetrate and suffer from violent crime in vastly disproportionate numbers compared to other groups.
"Equivalent". Such a central word.
repeat offender Robert downey Jr. should be thanking his stars he's white. if he wasn't, he'd bee in lockup without patrole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
actually, yeah, Robert Downey Junior should go down.
fair enough, I just blurted that out, yes, there are all sorts of possible mitigating circumstances. Repeat offending being one, others being not able to afford better legal representation etc. These same things probably also partially explain why poorer white people are more likely than better off people (like mr Downey) to be in prison.
All the same, my point about the other stuff stands: disproportionate amounts of prisoners come from certain groups because certain groups contain disproportionate numbers of people committing the crimes that'll land you in prison (why?Social circumstances, negative popular culture, who knows?). I don't believe that black people are disproportionately represented in jail because of racist judges as it seemed watchman was getting at.
Edit: equivalence? well, repeat offending is one issue, poor legal representation is another and so on and so forth. Do you have a scientifically controlled study where all variables but race are equivalent?
Celebrities are a bad example for making an argument that claims there's a racial bias in our court system.
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/kultur/2002/07/12/oj1ap.jpg
Just what the heck did you read from my post, anyway ? The numbers weren't the issue; the sentences themselves and harshness thereof are what was being talked about.
And let's be honest here: the US judicial system has a pretty lousy track record when it comes to keeping "ethnicity" and "justice" separate.
I'd be willing to blame the stupid jury system, but that's just IMO.
I didn't know that the jury decided the sentence.
What I read in your post was that Blacks and Hispanics received harsher sentences than whites for the same crime.
I believe your point is that those sentences were racist : my point was that there are other factors to take into consideration.
edit: brought to you through the medium of beer think.
Black on black violent crimes happen more than white on black crimes, and in the 98 death stats the number one violent cause of death for black males was being killed by other black males. Have no idea what it is now
So, in essence, getting longer sentences could actually be looked at as not being biased againts blacks. Anyway, I dont know the sentence figures now, but until recently the penalties for crack were much higher for the same amount of cocaine. Now its all lumped together as either a narcotic or controlled dangerous substance. I have yet to find a source about sentencing in general for all crimes for or against these claims that isn't completely biased
I'd suspect it's more about economics than race- O.J. being a perfect example. A rich person with a million dollar defense team is much more likely to be found not guilty or at least recieve a light sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
I think a rich executive will almost always get off much easier on something like drug posession than a poor person from the inner city, regardless of race.
That doesn't speak too highly of your legal system either, you know. And since proportionally more blacks are poor anyway the end result is largely the same - and more importantly the perceived end result, that of the "coloured" getting slammed harder than the "whites", is the same.
Which, given by what I've been taught of the dynamics of society, is a Pretty Bad Thing because it really guts the faith in the system of those who perceive themselves discriminated against.
Doubly so as the perception isn't AFAIK entirely false.
'Course, the "whites" don't seem to have too much real trust in the system either. Can't really blame them, by what I know of it.
exactly, crimes are committed mostly by the poor "class of societ", in america this tends to be blacks...i dont know enough about it to know if they get harsher sentences, but the type of crimes they commit (ie. petty theft) often involve imprisonment as opposed to large fines imposed on other types of crime...Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
having said that i know f all about the US legal system :2thumbsup:
yeah, I think I said as much in my drunk typing too. Poor whites are far more likely to be convicted for getting up to no good than wealthy ones, same goes for hispanics (of whatever race).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurvy
The result is the same as if the courts were racist, but to be honest they are merely slated towards economy rather than race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
So what do you want? Everybody getting equally bad representation? That is pretty hard. "Hey, you are successful, we don't want you anymore."
Personally I think it is less worse to have poor getting slammed harder than rich than races getting different treatment, because of their race. At least the first one has a fair reason, while the other has none.
Sure it isn't too great, but I still think it is far better than racist issues.
I'm yet to be covinced there are no (functionally) racist issues involved. Put this way: still during the first third of the last century, if not later, the US judicial system treated whites of different ethnic backgrounds on anything else than equal terms; for example, Irish, Italian, Finnish and suchlike (usually reasonably recently, ie. withing their generation or the few last ones immigrated) had a curious tendency to get screwed when up against longer-established "WASP" types. The so-called "white male franchise" has since then "opened up" to be more inclusive, but when one remembers such little incidents as the issue of black children requiring military escorts to be safely attend "mixed-race" schools as late as whatwasit, Sixties?, one cannot but wonder if there aren't certain deep-rooted biases lingering in general atitudes. One gets the impression they're pretty apparent in the media and popular culture (both of which in their own ways serve as reflections of the general attitudes, owing to their tendency to sell what gets bought) anyway, and such attitudes tend to have effects if only at what might be termed the structural level.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Oh $h!t, its going to the grand jury, I better apologize!
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachi
This incident is really a complete farce
-- there are more poor white people than black people in the USA, its just a higher percentage of the black demographic thats poor. The really staggering numbers come when you see how many of these poor families have abesntee fathers
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back on topic: funny video, courtesy of McKinneys bodyguard:
please dont whine about the site or the slow server, the video is at the bottom:
http://themediacrunch.com/2006/04/06/putyourassinjail/
True, but find me a justice system in any country where the rich and powerful criminals dont regularly get off easier than the poor and destitute criminals. We should try to control and stop such things, but I think it's always going to happen to some extent.Quote:
That doesn't speak too highly of your legal system either, you know.
Besides, this has nothing to do with McKinney since she is one of the rich and powerful. Go out tomorrow and punch a cop and see if you're allowed to walk away... you'd be in handcuffs and spending the night in jail, not roaming free while the police wring their hands and see if they can press charges.
I didn't find it exciting at all... Rather dul in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
It is clear she doesn't want to talk to them, yet they persist in getting in ther face. Why can't such people understand that she wants to say something she will halt or at least tell them to walk nicely beside them?
I don't like her already, but I like jounalists that push on in spire of obvious negativity to their presence. They just seek the splendid "F*** off!" comment so they can rip that person apart in the news. But that shouldn't be needed in this case.
Now, the bodyguard is a fool, but his words aren't those of her. He was just too stupid to keep his mouth shut. End of story.
I wonder if I could leave the scene, unarrested, and moving by my own power, if I punched a cop? Nope.
The difference in justice isn't between races, but between the rich and powerful (government officials) and those who aren't.
Crazed Rabbit