New unit at the .com: Huscarls

It would actually be rather good if rather than just having soldiers use different armour they could use a variety of different weapons. In William of Poitiers the English chuck all manner of things at the Normans- javelins, darts, axes and clubs (?). Anyway it doesn't really matter to me that CA has given him a tiny shield. I hope that the shield wall will make a return anyway. If the game is set up anything like RTW it will only take about five minutes to make a huscarl with a nice big kite shield.

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Originally Posted by The_Doctor

I thought huscarls had gone obsolete by the medieval period?

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Obsolete is not the right word. The Saxon Huscarles were some of the most feared warriors of Europe before William the Conquerer destroyed them. It is more that this kind of professional unit did not fit into feudalism very well. The Huscarles and other Vikings simply disappeared during the middle ages.

Graphically the unit isn't bad, but a bit uninspired. We already seen dozens of this kind of unit in the screenshots. A real huscarl with distinctive big shield and axe would be nicer.

In MTW, the Danes had several levels of early infantry.

Thralls were like peasant spearmen levies.
Carls were chain armored guys with small round shields and hatchet-like axes
Landsmen were better-armored than Carls with bigger shields and weapons
Huscarls were the equivalent of Early Royal Foot Knights. Slow because of all their armor, with huge shields and 1-2 handed axes.

The image looks like a Carl, not a Huscarl.

Vikings and Huscarls weren't the same thing. Arguably the final development of armies of professional warriors loyal to a national monarchy augured the end of the Viking Age.

To me that unit looks more like a well armoured man at arms, armed with wood cutting axe.I would be happier if the man would look more like this:

https://img460.imageshack.us/img460/...ingwaxe5ny.jpg

Here is also a picture from reenactment of use of the Viking axe,see the shield in the back of the opponents like Kraxis mentioned:

https://img460.imageshack.us/img460/...ightbig7nh.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

To me that unit looks more like a well armoured man at arms, armed with wood cutting axe.I would be happier if the man would look more like this:

https://img460.imageshack.us/img460/...ingwaxe5ny.jpg

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Yeah, that guy fits the bill of a Danish Huscarl better than the other guy, who is arguably a Saxon. But either of them would be preferable.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

The historically-accurate 2-handed swords would have looked flashier than this unhistorical unit.

~:rolleyes:

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No way.
Uninspired cheap Holywood tricks are far more preferable...

That looks like an axeman, not a huscarle.

And speaking of short weapons, the armored swordsman looks like he has a gladius. Definately not a 'longsword'.

Crazed Rabbit

Maybe there's something buggy with CA's weapon renderer. That's two new units with unusually small weapons in a row.

Oh wait, maybe that is how they plan to fix the too-high kill rate in RTW. Smaller weapons kill slower. :-)

It's actually kind of funny because you would think the rather liberal attitude which CA generally takes to history would lead to the conclusion that a big axe is better than a small one.

:laugh4:

Yeah... This just goes to show how CA can surprise us on an everyday basis.

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Originally Posted by Servius1234

Maybe there's something buggy with CA's weapon renderer. That's two new units with unusually small weapons in a row.

Oh wait, maybe that is how they plan to fix the too-high kill rate in RTW. Smaller weapons kill slower. :-)

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LOL! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

You know, though, I almost have to wonder if there really is something wrong with how weapons are being rendered. I can't find the screenshot now, but I remember seeing one pic where some English infantry were wielding spears that were only about 5-6 feet long. Now I'm by no means an expert on medieval weaponry, but shouldn't spears be at least a bit longer than that?

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Originally Posted by Martok

LOL! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

You know, though, I almost have to wonder if there really is something wrong with how weapons are being rendered. I can't find the screenshot now, but I remember seeing one pic where some English infantry were wielding spears that were only about 5-6 feet long. Now I'm by no means an expert on medieval weaponry, but shouldn't spears be at least a bit longer than that?

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Yes your right, your average spear should be between about 6 - 9 feet, and later on went upto around 12 feet in length. Then of course came the pike.

Perhaps that Huscarl is disguised as a resource gatherer. :laugh4:

Special ability: Hides well in forests, disguised as lumberjacks.

Well at Bannockburn, the early 1300's, the Scots and English Spearmen had mostly 12 ft spears.

I have at home some nice Viking pictures in book about Vikings. I may post that if is allowed (only parts of 2-3 pages). I will quote resource.

Huscarles would've fought with the usual mix of spears, swords, and axes. The big Danish axes were AFAIK a bit of a special-purpose weapon, the majority tending to prefer the trusty (and rather safer) spear, shield and sword and/or small axe approach.

Being able to put a shield in the way of an incoming spearhead being somewhat popular, you see.

Shieldwalls are doable with just about anything bigger than a buckler, incidentally. The Anglo-Saxons in the Bayeux Tapestry seem to be doing it a lot with kite-shields, and the pavesari of the Italian communal militias more or less copied wholesale the ancient Persian spara wall concept with their huge shields and long spears.

But I'll happily admit the fellow in the pic has a pretty weird-looking axe, and really needs one of those conical spangenhelm everyone and their dog used those days to top his mail coif.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Huscarles would've fought with the usual mix of spears, swords, and axes. The big Danish axes were AFAIK a bit of a special-purpose weapon, the majority tending to prefer the trusty (and rather safer) spear, shield and sword and/or small axe approach.

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No doubt you are right... I have no sources that say they did only use axes. And of course in such unformed formations it would be down to personal preference. But in general it was these important local elites that would have used the Daneaxe and it was the axe that got remembered becasue it was so unusual for the intended victims.
In such a context I think it is fair to give him that axe in preference to a spear, though I would say it would be a brave, and cool, choice to make some elite units carry spears.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wind

Yes your right, your average spear should be between about 6 - 9 feet, and later on went upto around 12 feet in length. Then of course came the pike.

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Thanks DW. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought, but I just wasn't sure. It seems like far too many of the weapons we've seen so far (either in the 3D unit feature or the screenshots) are smaller than their real-life historical counterparts. I've seen some that look more or less like they're the correct size (knight's lances and some of the broadswords, for instance), but a number of others simply look too short.

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Perhaps that Huscarl is disguised as a resource gatherer. :laugh4:

Special ability: Hides well in forests, disguised as lumberjacks.

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LOL!! Humor is a dangerous weapon when you wield it, my friend. :laugh4: